Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: So this is part two of our interview. If you missed the first half, feel free to go back and have a listen. You are a true hardcore person. You know, like even before we, even before we hopped on, like we started recording and just talking about stuff, I'm like, dude, we've known each other for a long time and I find it interesting. I always knew you were very, very, very like charismatic, smart, like just like a real interesting person.
When we ran into each other and you told me what you were doing, I was like, that makes perfect sense to me. Total perfect sense.
Let me just start with. Obviously what you're doing now is not what you set out to do when you started on the path that you're on now.
Your background in punk and hardcore, what helped and what hurt?
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I think one thing that really helped is I think my background in punk gave me a lot of openness to new ideas, adaptability, willingness to consider other perspectives, but also willingness to tell people when I thought those perspectives were not good, for lack of a better term.
But the things that hurt, I think were sometimes I was really, really stubborn. I was like, I admit this very often, I was a very mean person for a long, long, long time. And I was a very angry person for a really, really long time.
I don't know that I'm necessarily less angry, but I'm definitely a lot less mean these days than I was. And so that made me kind of standoffish in ways that I think hurt me socially and it made me difficult to be around for quite a while.
And it is what it is and I think I've learned and grown a lot from that. But having that experience also kind of gave me the opportunity to sort of reevaluate, like how do I stand in the world, what is the position I take, what is the person I want to project, how do I want to treat other people and be treated by other people.
And so in some ways we were talking about earlier with having jobs that suck so you know that you don't want to have that job. Like sometimes this is horrible, but like treating other people poorly and then dealing with the consequences of that. To know that I don't want to do that to other people anymore was really quite important for me.
[00:02:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I appreciate that vulnerability.
One of the things that I think is that can be tough about coming up in any kind of self baked scene where it's like punk and hardcore, whatever, whatever sub genre you want to talk about is this kind of self assurance that our group is the best group and We've got it.
We don't need one of the things in hardcore. It's the outside world. The outside world's like, what are you talking about?
We all live in the same general reality.
And that idea of being somehow, like, separated from other people and other realities just because you're into a form of music, I think can get people locked into a very, very small worldview that could keep you from growing as a person and really holding up a mirror. Like, how am I acting?
Who am I associated with? Like, are we actually doing the right things?
And especially if you're, like, a real lifer in a scene, it can, like, really stymie some of that stuff. And what you just shared, like, a version of that for me and for many other people I've talked to both on the podcast. But just as we grow older, like, with friends, it's like, oh, damn. Like, you know, I was caught up in such a tight little world for so long that when I stepped a little, just a few degrees outside of it, I realized I had a lot of personal growth to do.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: I, for a long time, made this sort of, like, semi conscious decision that everything I liked was correct and everything that I did not like was wrong. And if I was indifferent to something, it was also wrong. And I think that sort of polarizing, ultra polarized worldview can be a fun thing to have when you're younger and you're just sort of spouting off all the time and just doing wild stuff. But as an adult, it's just exhausting. I think about this.
I don't know if this is actually true, but I'd always heard this story that every so often they would call up Mike Judge and be like, mike, is it time to do a Judge reunion? And he would say on the phone, I'm not angry. I'm not fed up. I'm just tired.
I don't know if that's true, but for me, it's true.
And so that's like a.
I think people eventually sort of get around to that.
The thing I had to come around to is just like, different people like different things, and that's fine.
Which was a really huge revelation for me, which is like, saying that out loud now is, like, a crazy thing to think. But different people like different things.
[00:05:21] Speaker A: Totally. Well, also, huge shout out to Mike Judge. Dude, you rock.
I'm so glad that you're active in our world again in whatever way. You're the best, man.
Yeah, man.
So in your journeys, professionally, now in the world, you're in do you come across other people from the culture?
[00:05:41] Speaker B: I do, actually. Not as often as I would like to be entirely honest with you, but I do.
When I was teaching, I met a lot, a lot of hardcore folks who are also teachers, you know. So we know many of them. Some of them are quite prolific and sort of like, quite sort of well regarded, nursing, like Flynn, et cetera. But. So I met a lot of like just hardcore teachers, and that was great. I was able to find hardcore teachers in the Philadelphia school district when I was working there. I was able to sort of go to teacher conferences and link up with other people who were also sort of like hardcore background teachers. And that was rad. That was really good for me at least to feel like I could be the person that I had been, but also still a professional in ways and that my background wasn't necessarily a hindrance or something that I needed to hide or something that I shouldn't be proud of, but something I think was like a real sort of asset in one way or another. I just have to sort of navigate the way that is transition to academia. I feel like I saw a lot less of it when I started my PhD at Stanford. Stanford's a very weird and stuffy place, but I eventually did find some people who were old hardcore dudes. I found another grad student in my last year there who was also another vegan straight edge guy.
I ended up randomly on a project with someone who I got connected with through my advisor who was familiar with my band and sent me a sort of slack message being like, were you in this band? And I'm like, yes, I was. And then we've just been talking about music and statistics kind of nonstop since. And we've become quite good friends through that.
NYU is weird because it's in Greenwich Village and it's in a place that's functionally impossible for someone on a university salary to live in.
In order to combat this, NYU has this massive faculty housing complex that you can live in. It's just this huge faculty apartment building. And so I live in those. And then there's a guy who lives in the building next to me who's an old sort of more Revolution Summer, D.C.
vegan straight edge dude. And we hang out all the time and cook food together and do stuff and shoot the shit and do academic stuff. Shout out to Matt, he just got tenure. Very proud of him.
So you meet people around the ways, but it's like you always sort of have to carefully feel out, are you one of us? Or Are you not one of us? And sometimes they are, and sometimes they're just.
They have a very proper haircut, that's all.
[00:08:23] Speaker A: I had the most bizarre experience recently. I was working with the president of a business unit in a big, big international company, but just the Canadian arm of that company. He's the president of the west, and he's bringing me in to do some work with his team.
And he was like, hey, you've got a pretty interesting background. I see that you grew up playing in bands. And I'm like, oh, yeah. And I was ready just to kind of move on from the conversation. He's like, well, what kind of bands? I was like, oh, like punk. And he's like, well, like punk, like no Effects. Or like punk look more leaning hardcore. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, well, like, we're kind of, like, talking no Effects. Are we a little bit more like, political, like propaganda? Or are we talking to things that are like, political, but, like, a little bit more musical, like Fugazi? Or are we thinking about things more like Minor Threat? I was like, oh, you're of the culture. He's like, I'm totally of the culture. And he's like, I actually know. I looked into you. I'm just testing you right now. I was like, hell, yeah. End up having this, like. And this is like a straight up, like five by five. Like right in the. In the target of just being a straight up business person. You would never know. Like, no indicators at all. It could really, really, like, get down about records. Different shows have been in and wanted to spend the appropriate amount of time on that kind of conversation. Hey, this is fun. Like a mutual interest and then just move on.
And then our interactions back and forth. It's cool. It's like, we're not, like buddies, but it's a nice kind of like, touch point for us in our conversations and just like, oh, check out this record. Do you see this band? It's like, you know, like, just like kind of a fun thing.
But the two bands that people always bring up when I know they're like, oh, no, you actually get it is so like, this guy totally got it. But the two bands that people bring up is if I'm out, like, speaking and, like, say I'm talking at, like, a big conference or something like that, someone will come up and be like, Bad Brains.
Like, it's always Bad Brains or it's always Youth of the Day. And it's rarely any other band. Like, it's not Likely think like Minor Threat or DK or anything like that. It's almost always Bad Brains, which everyone wants to talk about, or it's almost always Youth of the Day in one of those two bands.
[00:10:30] Speaker B: I feel like what I get from people is either Mad Ball or Youth of Today.
[00:10:35] Speaker A: Mad Ball.
[00:10:37] Speaker B: People want to talk about Mad Ball. Maybe it's a New York thing, I don't know. But like, people want to talk about.
[00:10:40] Speaker A: Mad Ball, I want to talk about Mad Ball. I love Mad Ball. So good. But let's focus on the vegan, straight edge side of it. So, like, as a professional, you know, one of. So one of the questions I get asked a ton is how to manage myself as a sober professional. And either they're people who are straight edge, but they just like, I don't want to explain this to people, or they're in sobriety and recovery and they don't want to have to explain it to people. Or maybe they just don't like to drink. So how do you manage yourself as a sober professional? What tips do you have about that?
[00:11:12] Speaker B: Oh, that's actually really, really tough. So one of the things that's nice about my department is I'm not the only sober person in my department.
And so there's already a really good culture of people who just don't typically drink. And that's super fine.
One of the things I've actually found to be really helpful is this proliferation of non alcoholic spirits and mocktails.
Is this a thing around you guys as well?
And so I found that to be just really helpful because I can just order a thing and nobody asks questions about what I'm drinking. It's just like, I'm having a beverage at the same time you're having a beverage. It's fine. We don't need to talk about it so much.
Sometimes people ask me out for drinks, and depending on where they want to go, I'll often typically suggest coffee.
I'll be like, oh, I'm a huge coffee snob. Let me take you to a nice coffee place. And so I often try to redirect the conversation that way, but it's definitely weird. I don't want to talk about being straight edge with people who don't know what straightedge is. It's a really.
In some ways, it feels like almost like an embarrassing conversation to have to have. It requires so much setup for literally no payoff.
Have you ever seen that video of Norm MacDonald telling the moth joke on Conan O' Brien where he spends his entire segment talking about this moth going to, like going to a doctor and complaining about his life and existential crises. And then the punchline, the doctor's like, well, why did you come here? And the moth is just like, oh, the light was on. So it's like, it's like this very, like, underwhelming punchline for all the setup. I feel like telling someone who doesn't know about hardcore about straight edge is like that moth joke for a worse punchline. It's like, there's this, there's this, there's this. And I don't drink. And they're just like, okay, I don't know, you asked me about it. How am I supposed to handle this?
[00:13:13] Speaker A: I. I feel like such a dork if it ever, if I ever have to explain it when, if people, like, look me up and they look up my bands and then they're like, like, what's the straight edge thing? It's like, I just like, what's the quickest way out of this conversation that I could possibly have? And like, man, I love straight edge. I think it's. I think it's awesome. Like, I'm super stoked on it. I'm way more into veganism. Like, way, way more. But, like, I, I love, I love that I'm straight edge. I think it's great. I love that I don't drink. It's totally served my life very well. And my. My wife and I are both totally sober. It's just like a healthy lifestyle. I don't really want to get into it beyond that, but I get asked about it a ton in my, in my work as a, as a coach. I think those are good strategies, but let's flip it over to veganism. So this is the one that I deeply cannot. Like, I'm like, oh, gosh, I don't want to have to tell these people because, a, I don't want to be that guy that's like, you know, it's like, how do you know if someone's a vegan? Don't worry, they'll tell you. It's like, I unfortunately end up being that guy because I end up in situations where I'm in a position where we're going to have a shared meal or we're going to go out to dinner afterwards, we're going to meet for lunch, because a lot of my business development is associated with going out for meals or coffee or any of these things. But then also I do all day sessions with people where we're eating lunch together or we're going out to dinner afterwards.
So I'm in this situation where I often have to tell people I'm vegan, and it's just like, oh, gosh, I don't really want to have this conversation. So how do you manage that? How do you manage the vegan question as a professional?
[00:14:48] Speaker B: So I'll say I have a similar situation where there's lots of dinners and lunches either with visiting faculty or students or all sorts of people.
One of the things that I have found to be the most helpful is one of the admins in our department. Her name is Amy. She's literally the best. She's amazing, is also vegan. And so when things get scheduled, she makes sure that there. There are places where things will be easy and I don't have to worry about it. And, like, that's like, the best as far as, like, doing things in sort of smaller situations. I found that nowadays it comes up a lot less than it used to.
I think people are just, like, more used to veganism.
Sometimes they'll ask, like, why are you vegan? And I don't, like, I can't be like, well, Earth crisis. Like, you can't. You can't lead with that one.
But, you know, it's. It's like, you know, like, oh, you know, I think it. Originally I got into it for sort of animal rights. I think it's a really good environmental choice.
And it's just, you know, with the lifestyle I really like. And people are usually just sort of like, okay with that as long as you don't bring them to all vegan restaurants. Typically, like, as long as there's, like. Is sort of like an omnivorous, friendly place, they're usually all right with it. But I find the veganism one way easier to explain than the Straight Edge one because there's a punchline for the veganism one where it's like, oh, you care about climate change and carbon emissions? Well, guess what? This is a huge source of it. And I don't participate in that. They're like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. That's really good. People find veganism, I think, to be a lot more noble than Straight Edge, where they think Straight Edge is just more like kitschy and cute, you know, just like, that's adorable.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: Around veganism specifically, I feel that it can inject a level of either interest where people are like, oh, like, I was just in Dallas doing some work. I had this awesome conversation where it was a smaller team engagement, and I had to be like, yeah, I'm vegan. And they were like, oh. And everyone wants to start talking about it.
And the conversation can kind of go one of two ways. And this is my favorite way it goes. It's like, oh, my partner is vegan, or my sister's vegan, or whatever, whoever it is. And in this case, there was multiple people who either they themselves ate vegetarian because their partner was vegan, or they had a family member and it was just like, oh, this restaurant is sick. This is totally awesome. Have you tried this? It got into the, like, just the culture of it. Like, it was fun, interesting conversation. And anyone who wasn't like, that wasn't, you know, didn't have a family member, they themselves weren't could be part of that conversation because they're like, oh, well, you know, I'm interested in this. It was really cool, really fun conversation. But the flip side of that is where people are like, oh, well, I hope it doesn't offend you if I eat a hamburger. It's like, oh, my God, like, I do not want to discuss this with you at all.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:55] Speaker A: First of all, if I said yes, what are you gonna do? Like, get up and leave? Like, throw your hamburger out the window? No, but b, it's like, I don't want to talk about what you're eating, nor do I want to talk about that your second cousin is a hunter and that you go hunting with them or what Joe Rogan thinks about vegans. Like, I don't care. Like, I have nothing against it. It's no big deal. But I don't want the conversation to go that way either. So it's like my most reticent thing to bring up that I often have to bring up with people.
[00:18:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I agree with you completely. Like, the first way that that goes is one of my favorite sorts of conversations. Cause, like, I love food. I love trying new food. I love cooking and experimenting and doing all kinds of weird food stuff. And like, any excuse I have to have those sorts of conversations with people is just awesome and fun. And it, like, it's a really nice subculture where it's like, oh, do you know about this, like, under the radar spot? Oh, it's so good. Like, as soon as you said I was in Dallas, I was like, oh, do you know about, like, El Palote, the vegan Mexican bake?
Did you go to that, by the way?
[00:19:02] Speaker A: No.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: There's an all vegan Mexican bakery that also has tacos. That's amazing.
[00:19:08] Speaker A: In Dallas, we went to two vegan Mexican places, and they were both sick I'll send it to you afterwards.
[00:19:17] Speaker B: Awesome. I'll send you mine as well. But yeah, so that stuff's great, but just it's asking questions, like asking.
Asking people to answer questions where their answer is entirely unactionable is just like a bad situation to be in. Do you know what I mean? Where if they're like, am I going to offend you if I have this, If I eat this burger? Like, you're not going to do the no more video throw your burger in the trash can thing, Right? If you're not willing to do that, don't ask. Just like, if it was a problem, I would have cloistered myself in like some weird monastery years ago.
I'm an adult. We're all just adults doing stuff in the world. You don't gotta make it weird. Just be like, cool.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: Don't make it weird.
[00:20:04] Speaker B: If you're an adult who only eats chicken fingers and buttered noodles, that's fine. We don't have to talk about it.
Different people like different things. It's okay.
[00:20:13] Speaker A: Totally.
When we were talking about great vegan places in Dallas, Mike is over behind the camera shaking his head in contempt.
So Mike is a highly opinionated vegan, first of all, Mike is highly opinionated in general and he has some real outsider takes that I think are interesting we could talk about later.
[00:20:35] Speaker B: Love outsider takes.
[00:20:36] Speaker A: Yeah. You and Mike might be a real match made in heaven here.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: I really want to talk to Mike more after this. It seems fun.
[00:20:45] Speaker A: Mike is awesome. Overall, I'd say 9.5 out of 10.
[00:20:50] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that rules.
[00:20:52] Speaker A: All right, we're going to head into the crucial three where I'm going to ask you a scaling a question that's scale up in difficulty as we're closing off. But before we get there, is there anything you want to ask me? Anything that you want to add into our conversation? Anything you want to shout out?
[00:21:08] Speaker B: That's a good question. Are there things I want to shout out more than anything? The four Punch book that Shining Life Press put out recently.
For a while I was thinking veganism is so much cooler than Straight Edge. And then flipping through that four Punch book, reminding myself of the state of the world when I was getting into Straightedge. Dude, Straight Edge is so cool. It is straight up the coolest thing. It's the coolest contribution to humanity. It's amazing. I cannot recommend that book enough. It was so fun and going to actually the release that they did in Asbury park where it was just like people telling stories. Were you on the livewire board for the original Floor Punch week.
Yeah, that was one of the best weeks of my entire life. And I still think about some of those stories all the time. The porter pulling up a chair to a buffet and how they had that ice cream cake in the freezer for months and just all of this just nonsense. It was just so much of what is fun about being straight Edge was just sort of like captured in Floor Punch as a concept that, like, I cannot shout that book out enough. And it's a beautiful cultural artifact.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: I love that you say that. I was just talking to Andy Norton, Shout out to Andy the other day, and he was at a book fair in LA over the weekend with John and the whole Shining Life crew.
I love what those guys are doing. And it's funny that you're bringing this up because my first question was going to be about Floor Punch. So it's perfect. And it's also how we started our conversation. So anything else that you want to shout out?
[00:22:45] Speaker B: I guess, you know, generally everything they do over at Shining Life is just wonderful.
Food. Go to a Nixie. When you come to New York City, if you want New York City recs, hit me up. Slide into my email. It's easy to get to. And if you want to do a PhD in applied statistics, hit me up.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: That being third on the list. The other two.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
I want to talk about four punch and food and then.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: All right, so question number one.
You're a smart dude. Very, very smart. Always struck me as someone that I enjoyed talking to. Always had a lot to say.
Floor Punch, depending on who you speak to, either one of the all time greatest bands or not that at all. So how do you square up being as smart as you are and having the understanding of the greatness of Floor Punch that you do?
[00:23:40] Speaker B: Yeah, an early experience that happened to me. I went to a wilkes barre fest. DS13 was playing and the singer of DS13 was like, we from Europe send you our best bands and what do you send us? Floor Punch. And to me I was just like, ooh, ooh.
In retrospect, though, I think you have to have some ability to understand what's comical about yourself. And I think in a lot of ways, four Punch is like a fun thing, but not a silly thing.
People are like, you don't like things that are fun. And I'm like, sure. I don't care for, say, good clean fun. I think that's a silly thing. Let's not. Not what I enjoy spending my time with. But Four Punch is To me, a fun thing that's a big celebration of all the things that are important about Straight Edge, hardcore and being young and having friends who are also Straight Edge and doing all of this stuff together.
There are a lot of things that are associated with Four Punch. I think that. And this is something that Mark said, even at that sort of book event, if I could go back in time, maybe I wouldn't say those things again or use those words or use those terms of phrase anymore.
But the core of it is it's such an important marker of a physical place and time in my life and celebration of all of the stuff that's just fun about straightedge that I think it's just a perfect and beautiful shared thing.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I love what you're saying. I think it's a fun thing without being a silly thing.
Totally captures. And it's a nuance. It's a real nuance. So, you know, you brought up Earth Crisis earlier, and you can kind of tell when a person aged at a hardcore about how they speak about Earth Crisis. Like, oh, you know, someone, like, speaks dismissively of Earth Crisis. Oh, like, baba Earth Crisis. Like, dude, what are you talking about? Earth Crisis are, like, probably one of the most important bands for advancing the philosophy of veganism and Straight Edge, for sure.
But making it like a real thing, like Earth Crisis have either directly or indirectly formed the thinking of hundreds of thousands of people about animal rights and how they engage in animal rights. Either because they're involved in it, the people have decided, like, I'm gonna be vegetarian or vegan, or because they at least gave them a counterpoint where someone's like, well, I eat meat. But this band, even if they're like, fuck that band. Like, it's something that, like, Earth Crisis is in the conversation either directly or indirectly and will be forever, like, one of the most important bands around. Advancing a type of thinking floor punch. On the flip side, it's like you've taken everything that would give someone, like, an indicator of, like, I want to be a part of that. And you put it in one band.
And not only that, the songs are, like, insanely well written. The performances are good, the lyrics are simple, but you can connect to them. Like, the art is cool. Like, everything about it is awesome. And I barely know any of them. I just know a few of the guys a little bit. But they're awesome dudes. And, yeah, like, people.
You can look at that band and you could either clown on them, but if you clown on them, I think you don't get it.
[00:27:07] Speaker B: You're missing the point. And, you know, it's like, if you don't get it, it wasn't for you. Think about. There's always this explosion line that pops in my head. If you don't know, then you weren't meant to.
It's just not for. If you don't get it, it's not for you. And that's fine. Not everything has to be for everyone. But floor punch is for me.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: Floor punch is for me. God, we need to make that a pin or make it a shirt or something. Floor punch is for me.
And shout out to the dudes for floor Punch and Shining Life. Great book. Check out everything on Shining Life. I think it's awesome. I kind of like that we're in the age where people are doing books about stuff that we were a part of when we're young. It's like, neat. Neat to see.
Yeah, I like that a lot. Okay, let's go to the. The next question.
So you talked a little bit early on about, like, some stuff that you recognized about yourself you didn't like and you had to work on.
What about in your professional career?
What have you been surprised to find out about yourself that you do like and you've been trying to build off of? So something that you didn't know about yourself but has been revealed to you through your professional career?
[00:28:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the thing that I've been sort of most surprised by is how thoughtful I can be when it comes to understanding other people's either research designs or interests or just sort of like intellectual curiosities and setups and the degree to which that, like, I am. I say this often. I'm not a creative person, and I'm not an artist. I'm not. I've played in bands, but I'm not a songwriter. I can't really create out of nothing, but I feel really good about my ability to take someone else's problems or questions or conundrums and really problem solve and iterate on that with them and collaboration and really help other people realize either their professional or research goals, sort of through statistical analysis and modeling and careful thought. And so that's one of the things that I really love about myself.
It's one of the things that I think can make me seem easily distracted in my work, where I work on lots of different projects that seem tangentially related to the stuff that I do, the core stuff that I do.
But I think it's one of my favorite parts about this job. And it's One of the things that I really, really try to cultivate in myself because I think it really is super, super helpful.
[00:29:42] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, last question.
So I know in your field mentorship is hyper important.
Both receiving mentorship but also understanding how to mentor people. So a piece of advice on both sides.
For anyone who is seeking out a mentorship or in a mentorship, what's a piece of advice you'd have for them? But also for anyone who is actively beginning to mentor people, what's a piece of advice? So let's start first. For people either seeking a mentor or kind of early engagement with a mentor, what's a piece of advice for them?
[00:30:18] Speaker B: I think the two most important things are one, to respect your mentor's time, realize that they are sort of volunteering to mentor you.
And so be respectful, be organized, make sure that you're giving them the grace and space to let their own life sort of take over or let their own life get in the way of the time that you're asking for.
The second thing I would say to that is be really clear about what your professional goals are, because that's only going to help them help you. It could be a case that the things you want or the things you're looking for are not things that they can provide, but they might know someone who can. And so even that sort of relationship, recognizing that the mentor you've sort of reached out to might not be the right mentor to you is really important. It's like choosing a therapist or choosing a partner.
Interpersonal fit really, really matters.
[00:31:14] Speaker A: Heck yeah. All right, so what about being a mentor?
[00:31:19] Speaker B: Be really clear about expectations for your mentee, sort of how you want things to be structured, how they want things to be structured. And make sure you're having this sort of like, I play Dungeons and Dragons, I play role playing games. And so we always have these sort of session zeros where we talk about how do we want the game to go, what do we want things to do, what are the sort of.
We make the implicit rules explicit and so really do that with your mentee. How often do you want to meet? What sorts of advice are they looking for? What sorts of advice are they not looking for?
What are their career goals, how can you best support what they need and also be really upfront with them about what your expectations are for them because you're spending your time doing stuff. So making sure that they know the best way to respect you is one of the best ways that you can respect them.
[00:32:13] Speaker A: Heck yeah. Listen, man, as we're Closing off, this was totally awesome. I like to think that there's someone who's going to listen to this who has no idea who Floor Punch is and is like, I'm going to go listen to that. And just the look of horror on their face when they listen to it or delay.
[00:32:32] Speaker B: If you choose to listen to Floor Punch, don't listen to the song Let It Ride. Because I feel that that's the worst Floor Punch song.
[00:32:39] Speaker A: Oh, man, I could speak volumes on that.
I will just simply say that if you're someone who does not listen to punk and hardcore and you're interested in listening to to Floor Punch, just sit with it. Like, really sit with it and try and get it, because God damn it. Like, one of the greatest. But with that, man, you totally rock. I really appreciate you. I'm so glad that we ran into each other. It's just been super cool reconnecting. This is an awesome, awesome conversation. Anything else you want to add as we're closing off?
[00:33:09] Speaker B: It's been a blast. It's always great to talk to you. I feel like we always have really thoughtful conversations. And so getting to schedule sort of two hours of my day to just talk to you about stuff has been the highlight of probably my month. So it's always a pleasure to see you, and I hope I get to see you in person again soon.
[00:33:26] Speaker A: Hell, yeah, man. Awesome. All right, I will talk to you soon, everybody. We'll see you next time. Have a good one.
One step, one step, one step beyond.
