Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: So this is part two of our interview. If you missed the first half, feel free to go back and have a listen. All right, let's go back to. To Korean business culture. So you'd mentioned that, like 40ish years ago, Korea's business, like the economy wasn't strong, but in this relatively short amount of time, it's transitioned to being what you refer to as being an advanced country. Did I get that right?
[00:00:25] Speaker B: True.
[00:00:28] Speaker A: What's been the fuel for that? So, like, what's been the engine that's made that happen from a business perspective?
[00:00:33] Speaker B: Now I'm sitting in this podcast talking about business and punk and hardcore all at the same time. I guess Korea was a punk rock country.
Korea was punk rock country. It's like a pure diy.
We could do this and then like in a big community culture, like, you know, I mean, sometimes it's like authoritarian.
You know, there's a lot of mandatory stuff that you have to do, but, you know, but it's just a punk for country. We can do this. Let's go. Let's just, let's go get it done. Because we didn't really have anything but our bare hands, you know, our human resources, they just go out and do, do, do.
Yeah, that's, that's the, I guess, backbone of Korean society. And then also because we were so poor and then we, we were. The entire society and economy was broke, like broken down because of the war, so we had to start from scratch.
So I guess not only just economy, but the cape, the culture, the K pop and K drama, etc. Etc. And then we were starting, as we were starting over, we started.
We were so hungry for growth, we had a little more of a survival instinct. One, two is that we were just benchmarking every single thing that we could find, we could possibly find. And then we just say, copy, copy, copy and improve, improve, improve.
So those two things, two main things are the backbone, the engine of Korean, Korean economy.
Korean miracle. Growth miracle, if you will.
[00:02:09] Speaker A: So what kind of impact has that had on you as a professional? Like, being part of this kind of like magical transformation.
[00:02:15] Speaker B: So I'm sort of like somewhere between X generation and Millennial generation. So it's what they call Jacksonnial. There's actually word X plus millennial. Because, like, you know, the late late 70s and early 80s are like, who were born during that era. We went through so much like, you know, from beeper to, like Internet to modern Internet, you know, like smartphone and everything now. AI right.
[00:02:47] Speaker A: The.
[00:02:48] Speaker B: We saw the globalization impact global like how you doing? How you start doing a globalization properly with when you have nothing. That kind of like taught me the passion and the miracle stories and then like commitment, perseverance and that what that really inspired me back when I was growing up.
And as I mentioned before, it's more like looking back, it's like a pumpkra country.
I don't care. Let's go.
We can get it done. We're just gonna get, you know, get our stuff in front of people as much as possible.
[00:03:29] Speaker A: So of course there's all sorts of like positive sides to everything you're saying, but that like intensity of like, let's go, we're gonna get it done. Like go as hard as we can. Are there any downsides of that for professionals or people or families or anything like that?
[00:03:43] Speaker B: Oh yeah, definitely. Like, I think the. One of the, the dark secret of Korean growth miracle is that a lot of sacrifices, you know, like especially my father and my mother, like uncle generation, the work for all these people who were in the workforce, they, you know, this six days a week was like almost seven days a week was a common thing.
You have to sacrifice your life. Like you don't really have anything else but work in your life and then you push forward. And then also the average working hour back then was almost like, I guess 20 hours, like 19, 18 to 20 hours because you come to work and you have to come really early too. That was back in the courtesy. And then you stay until like seven and then you go out for dinner and then also after work thing. And then you come back and start working again. Some people actually sleep on the office until like you sleep until like seven and then you go to public side and come back and start work day too. So there was kind of like a really big sacrificing culture back in the day. So when I.
It really had a big impact on Korean society.
A lot of people, like struggling mental health people didn't know who they really were, who they want to be. So they were kind of like lost identities back then. So a lot of dark truths about Korean society. But things have changed though. For like at least like 15 past 10 years, things have changed dramatically.
[00:05:28] Speaker A: Yeah. So from your perspective, and I know, I'm just asking for your opinion here, what's led to that change? Because you'd also mentioned in the past 10, 15 years the stance on alcohol and drinking has changed. So like what's led to these changes from your perspective?
[00:05:43] Speaker B: I think it's a natural progression linked with or coupled with the growth rate of your economy, meaning you're so now meaning that you don't have anything. So you like hustle like you live a street life and then you, you start gaining income and then you become, start living a better life and then, then you start realize you start questioning the quality of the life and the meaning of life. That's basically what happens. So like, so I guess like when also when we start like globe truly globalizing our economy and meaning that export and import and we're learning so much also from the other leading companies and cultures and then they kind of like start like okay, we need to start looking for meanings of our lives. And also we need to, you know, the work is, it should, shouldn't be everything, everything in your life, blah, blah. All this kind of like realizations back then, like a kind of natural progression. But still we are going through like we're going through a cultural clash because of that. Because that was our, you know, the playbook, you know, sacrificing everything playbook. And now we are like, okay, we are, now we are advanced country. We are the one inspiring other countries. So let's behave, let's behave like we are global companies now. So let's behave. So that kind of like we are.
[00:07:07] Speaker A: Going through that and like as a, as a result of that, like what do you think's next? If you're going to look forward like 20 years or so, where do you think that business culture is going to be?
[00:07:20] Speaker B: I'm, I'm no HR expert. However, it's a tough question 20 years from now.
But one thing, that one thing, one structure thing that's going to impact Korea society and economy profoundly is that we are suffering from low birth rate. I know it's a global trend.
Korea is like one of the, one of the lowest in the world.
Lowest in the world. Especially when it comes to OECD like developing countries and the organization, 30 different countries, we are at the bottom. It's like zero point. I think lowest one was 0.6 birth rate, meaning that we are losing population.
So we are not a we. We by no means we're not a big company. But 50 million is a very sizable country.
However, we're losing it. So how it's going to change in the future and then at the same time we're going to be dealing with aging populations, including myself, 20 from 20 years from now. I think, I think we're gonna have to extend our retirement year to like eight up to 80 years.
And then maybe with the help of AI, we might be able to do that. So I don't know how it's gonna change.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: So I know that this is a global phenomenon. But like, any thoughts specifically to Korea?
Why. Why are you at the bottom of that list from your perspective?
[00:08:51] Speaker B: Because we were, as I mentioned before, we were very like, sacrificing culture. Like, we were very focused. And the way I see it, Western culture is more of a individualism and we are more of the mandatory togetherness. And there are a lot of inter.
There are a lot of perceptions that you have to do this, you have, you have to do that, you have to act your age, you have to get married. There's all this kind of weird. A lot of pressure from like, I think more established societies or previous generations, so younger generation, including myself, we don't really see it that way, but the pressure is still there. And then we're like, no, I don't want to do it. So they don't want to. Like now they wanted to really calculate every move and every risk.
I don't want to because in the raising kids, it's going to cost you a lot.
The thing, the level of the private education is highest in the world. The Korean society is obsessed with education. So there are a lot of. Also as a person, it's a very.
It can be very tiresome. Like, you have to, like, after work, you have to study a lot of things that you have to think about.
And so people just like, give up. And I don't want to get married. I don't want to. Even though I'm married, I don't want a kid because that's gonna make me sacrifice everything, drop everything that I love. And people don't want to do that.
[00:10:29] Speaker A: So let's now kind of focus more on you. Specifically, you mentioned your branding company that you have. So tell us about that.
[00:10:38] Speaker B: Oh, so I started my company, a personal brand, I guess personal brand company called open your eyes last after I left my IKEA Korea. So around like March, April, time frame 2004. So I started my company called open your eyes because. But I didn't really want to start my business because I guess I was pretty hesitant to that because I started. I always wanted to go back to the corporate world.
That's kind of my identity as well. I'm a professional CMO in the corporate world.
But I started giving a lot of speeches, you know, a lot of meetings. And I need a title ex ikea. It's already always there. However, you need to like, present title. I was like, okay, what do I want? What kind of Title do I? I don't want to think too hard. And then I used to have a booking agency called Open your Eyes, the bringing have heart bringing Bane, you know.
And that's also I kind of named it after one of our songs, geek song Open youn Eyes. So kind of like okay, what do I want to do? And around that time I retired from Open your Eyes booking agency and I was bringing back with Stick to your guns Korean tour. Back then because I'm good friends with them, they wanted to come to Korea. That was like okay, let's, let's do it. And then I kind of like brain open your eyes staying back. And then, then I realized like okay, I'm going to stick with this. So I have this like branding company, meaning that so it's more like a one person consultancy and then for keynote speaking or inspiration company. So I mean it's kind of like me doing my like giving keynote speeches and also giving advisory and consultancies to businesses.
[00:12:30] Speaker A: So like what do you do exactly? Like when you're, when you're giving like consulting services, like what do you do?
[00:12:36] Speaker B: One of the few things, one is one is a brand assessment and two is the more marketing, technical marketing assessment.
And third one is that I draw strategies together for them.
So that's principally three, three main things that I do and then those are the main core things and how, and the specific approaches vary depending on the company situations.
[00:13:05] Speaker A: So is that what you do for a living now is just your own company or are you involved in other things as well?
[00:13:12] Speaker B: Yes.
So the personal branding, personal brands business has always been there. But I also, while I was doing that I was also, I was offered to become a CMO for this Korean self photo company for six months and they were going through brand transformation. So I, they asked me to come on the short on the contract basis, just come in and transform the brand. So that's exactly also what I did. And then currently I am also with this company, education company which is they're very unique company. I just recently joined them as their first cmo. So exciting journey. But at the same time a personal brand will always stay with me.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: All right, so as we're heading towards the close of the interview, we're going to head into something called the crucial three. But before we get into that, is there anything you want to ask me? Anything you want to shout out? Anything you want to talk about?
[00:14:15] Speaker B: Yes, one thing, one thing. When you know, when we're talking about the prediction and then what have changed for the past like 23 years. I think leadership has changed now. I realize because we talk so much about punk and hardcore. I realize that this is also leadership and the business pockets, right, the leadership has changed. So when we were like punk like back then it was like when go get, we were 100%. That's Coquetti mode. And it was. The leadership back then was more like, I guess more just obey my words, just let's get it done. So there's more like authoritarian leadership was very much preferred back in the day. But now things have changed. So it's more like open and also compassion based leadership that now is becoming a thing. Because also back in the day it was basically top down approach.
And now we are the creative society or economy. Business is trying to instill this bottom up approach.
So that's why also this is also clash as well. Because a lot of people who never really were not that familiar with the bottom of approach. Meaning that you speak your own minds, blah blah blah. And then you, you sometimes compromise and you agree, you decide on certain direction, you know, negotiations. People are not that, you know, the familiar with that. We are more like here's the direction, let's go. The Koreans are really good at like getting things done fast or copying things fast. And now hear this. But the interesting thing about Korean society and the Korean economy in general. So as I mentioned before, we were because of the war, we were nothing and we were just observing everything single thing. We're just like I guess like a cartoon character. We're just eating everything up. I think from like 10 years ago. Now we are at the point, it's a society. We are at the point where we can really create our own recipe based on what we learned. So I think that's the, that's how I see how K pop was successful, how K dramas when K movie were successful back. Because if you really, if you consume K pop, K drama, this is like okay, I've seen this before.
But they were doing it very like high quality. But there was a weird twist to it that there's a Korean, Korean stuff, Korean stuff that I never really thought of in my life. It's like oh no. So I think that this is more like because we were looking up all this advanced, all these like cultures and who were thought that more inspiring to us. We just like taking all in Europe, U.S. europe, North America, Canada, Japan, Hong Kong. Like we were just taking all in. Now we are like okay, here's what we build based on what I consume. And then that is ultimate hybrid.
The ultimate hybrid. So that's kind of like this conversion economy. I think conversion kind of like talents and they kind of like bottom up. And then also servant leadership is now a new thing.
New, new, new thing. So I think it's only going to get better in five to 10 years. However, as you know, the current political environment now we're also going kind of switching back to this, like, strong militant leadership. So we have to stay tuned for that as well.
[00:18:02] Speaker A: Yeah, man. It's an interesting time.
All the work that I do across the leadership space, it's like anything, you know, like, there's trends, things come and go. Like, what's popular five years ago is not going to be popular now. We are certainly heading into a time that is a little less gentle from a leadership perspective.
But I have a firm believer that like, water should find its own level on these things. Like, so I think, like, let's say specifically some of the tech companies, I think the tech companies, like, overextended themselves. And not just the tech companies, but using them as an example, they overextended themselves on the culture piece for like, they're like, they were. They're creating a work experience that was unrealistic and untenable for too many people. And then the, like, the switch of culture, which is eventually going to happen, then people feel they lost something. But that thing that they had was almost like an illusion because it's like that's not like a tenable thing. That's not going to like, that's not going to be there. But it also doesn't mean that we're going to go back to some terrible work conditions. You don't have to do that. It's like water will find its own level. I really do believe that there's been a lot of good, healthy progress globally in leadership, in culture, the understanding of those things. How do you cultivate them? And for every three steps forward, there's going to be two steps back, but you still have that one step forward that's happened. I think we're getting to a better and better version. I can only really practically speak more to like North America and Europe, which is where I spend most of my time professionally. But I will say that I've got a lot of hope that we're heading overall in the right direction, globally from a leadership.
And I'm not talking politics, I'm talking business culture perspective.
It's certainly interesting times, though. I will say that.
Anything else you want to touch base on before we head to the crucial.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: Three and also what you're Doing has been a big inspiration for me as well as a person.
What you do and how you create your business and how you also carry yourself forward as a leader, it's very inspiring. And I'm pretty sure.
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who can say this. So you are also, when you are doing music professionally, you are inspiration to a lot of people all over the world. But with your business profession, what you're doing with your crew, I'm calling them crew, but it's also an inspiration to a lot of people, so. And then maybe in the future, what you're doing is kind of like, will be my role model. I really also wanted to get into the more leadership side of business, not just marketing. Marketing. So I'm gonna also seek for your a lot of other advice from you in the future.
[00:20:47] Speaker A: Yeah, man. The door is always open. And by the way, so we ended up getting two consultants to Japan, so I was joking about this earlier with someone else. It's like, yeah, like, we're expanded into Japan now, so, like, there's a good chance that you and I might be able to cross paths at some point this year or next year, because my wife and I will be heading over to Japan to do our first. Our first series of work over there in conjunction with that. And I wouldn't have been able to do that without you. So I appreciate you. And, dude, it's just like, thank you for saying that. Like, one of the things I've been thinking about a lot is why I do this podcast. And part of why I do this podcast is, you know, it's like kind of a proof point that when we start working with a company, I'm not just some weirdo that's like saying I'm a coach or these things that I actually have, like, a background and, you know, I've got these things. I also like using it as if a client is considering working with us or working with me. They can see what I'm like by looking at the podcast. It's a platform for people like you, but also, like, one of the things that I just think is a story that I always want to tell is I met all of these amazing people 20 years ago, you know, like 30 years ago, like 15 years ago, who. Who all played or maybe even continue to play. Like, in your case, in these bands. And these bands for our time were amazing. Like, we're just, like, so cool or so interesting and all these things. But then we all went on to do other things, and some of those things are even cooler. Like, even cooler than the bands and more interesting. And I love to connect with people, like, 20 years later and just be like, dude, look at you. Look at all your success. Look at all the cool stuff. And the thing that I really. I always want to kind of. I hope I get across to people is, like, just because you grow up and cover grass in your life doesn't mean that it's some, like, death sentence and just some, like, crappy thing. It's like, you can still be a punk and do super cool, interesting stuff and be, like, alive.
And I just hope that, like, these interviews give people a chance to see, like, that play out with, like, real, really good people. So that's, again, why I was so excited to have you on the podcast.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: Right.
Inspired by what you say that my philosophy for marketing is not just, you know, this. All this expanding or just, you know, getting people to spend more. I mean, it's kind of part of the job. Is part of the job. However, I will say that marketing can be a positive force for a lot of people. We are inspiring and changing a lot of people's lives with the right marketing, right branding. So that's the mission statement for my perception on what marketing is and what marketing should be. So basically, it's kind of, like, somewhat in between. It's somewhat aligned with the punk crack philosophy and hardcore philosophy that I have.
Positive change.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: Heck yeah, man. 100%. All right, you ready for the crucial three?
[00:23:45] Speaker B: Yes, sir.
[00:23:47] Speaker A: Okay, so these are going to be three questions that scale up in difficulty as we go. I'm going to start with the total zinger right off the bat. The three best ever straight edge hardcore records.
Oh, no.
[00:24:05] Speaker B: The first one is simple. I'm a simple guy. 1. We are not leaving this alone from Yusuf today.
2 out of step Minor threat.
Third one is tough.
Okay, but I. Okay, what's the name of the way? Hold on, let me. Let me take a look at my staff.
Oh.
Hence hard things we carry. Given the fact that also really good friends inspired on a personal level as well.
[00:24:43] Speaker A: Yeah. One of. One of the greatest bands of all time, for sure. Have heart. And that record is like.
Like beyond the beyond. Like, what a record.
Huge. Great, great choices. I concur. Fantastic. Okay, second one. If you were to look at one thing in your professional career. And when I say professional, I also include the geek. So, like, if you were to look at one thing in your career or your output, what's one thing that you are the most proud of?
[00:25:20] Speaker B: Our first US Tour and our first show, the fact that we got through all of that just, you know, the play that show, it was kind of like real, real dream comes true moment for us. And then they kind of like, started it all. And then if you really think about the impact that my band, international, international activities had on my personal life, my personal professional career, and then our Korean harker scene and global harker scene at funk scene, I think that was my single biggest achievement. And also, it took a lot to get to where we were at that first venue because we were scared and we didn't have money. So everybody had to, like, work really hard to, like, collect the money, talk to your families and stuff. And days off back in the day. And back in the day, Koreans were not really.
We couldn't really travel the world easily back then, so we had to go through so many different things as well to just do that.
That show, that first. First show, first tour, American tour, US Tour.
[00:26:33] Speaker A: And where. Where was that first show?
[00:26:35] Speaker B: The first show was the. I think was.
It was with. This is hell.
So what? I think it was New York. Brooklyn. I think it was Brooklyn.
No sleep till Brooklyn. I think there was Brooklyn. Yes.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: All right, last question, and this is a tough one.
So I want you to think of a young person who's either about to start their career, their professional path, or thinking about starting their own business or thinking about starting a band, but someone who's maybe marginalized, who feels like, I don't know if I could do this. Like, what's one piece of advice? What's something that you could share with someone, having been in that position, yourself with the geeks and profession, all that? What's one piece of advice that you could give to someone who has a dream but is afraid?
[00:27:27] Speaker B: Every single experience in your life is a gift, so. And you never know until you give it a try, whether you are fit for it or whether your dream is correct or not.
So in order for you to prove your proof, whether validate your proof of concept, you have to just go for it.
If you fail, then you go, you.
You get back up and do it again. Or use or. Or you do something else. But you have to give it a try. Just go punk rock. The punk rock. Diy hardcore. Let's go.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: Hell yeah, man. Dude, this is so a. It's been so great being reconnected to you, like, so many years later. You're awesome. I love you. I appreciate you so much. And yeah, man, you rock. Any last words as we close off?
[00:28:19] Speaker B: No, it's just what you're doing is amazing. So I'm hoping that this interview, this pocket, is also gonna. It's also gonna inspire a lot of new people and then also diff. Touch upon touch, different, I guess, sectors of the world, different parts of the world, in the north, business world. So my story, my experience, you know, if. If.
If I can inspire them, and then my duty, my. My work here is done, so I'll be very fulfilled. That's kind of like the reason why I'm living, giving inspiration.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: Yeah, man.
Heck, yeah. Awesome. All right, brother. I will see you next time, everybody. Thanks for joining us. We'll catch you on the next one. Bye. Bye.
One step, one stop.
What's that?
[00:29:13] Speaker B: Beyond.
