Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hey everyone. Welcome to the episode. So Ask a RAM flips the script one step beyond podcast. Guests and listeners submit their questions and Ask a RAM anything. Questions can be music, life stories, business, leadership, advice, how to make the best vegan omelette. You name it, A RAM will unpack your questions and leave you with info you can apply. Before we get to it, please rate, review and subscribe. I've often heard that I can be defensive and hard to connect with. And while it's tough to hear, I'm starting to think there might be some truth to it. How can I better understand and address this feedback?
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Get a360 and work with a coach or a mentor. So being defensive is like a really normal thing and it's not a terrible thing. And it also something that you should get out of your own way if possible because it's just like a thing that you have to manage and other people want to manage and nobody wants to be defensive. Defensiveness usually comes from kind of like a sympathetic nervous system response, so a fight or flight. And it's like suddenly we're acting that way, suddenly words are popping out of our mouth, or suddenly our physical presence is changing our verbal presence. So it's only like 30 minutes later or an hour later that we're like, oh, I was just acting defensive. So get a 360 or some kind of assessment that can give you like real deal feedback.
And once you've got that, you should work with a mentor or a coach and you want to be thinking about like what they would call in, in a therapeutic sense, exposure therapy. And exposure thera therapy essentially is if like there's something you're afraid of or you have like a strong automatic reaction to you deal with it and interact with it enough so that over time you build an ability to, you know, have that little moment of thought before you react and to kind of get ahead of it yourself, to get your breath and all those things. So what I mean by exposure therapy specifically to this would be working with a coach or a mentor who could walk you through types of feedback that you'd be getting in types of situations. And for some people that might be like, you know, like acting stuff out, but I don't actually think that's necessary. It's more about having difficult conversations and really getting into them repeatedly, really getting into those tough corners if having a coach or a mentor is unavailable. So most people should be able to get a mentor because there's not usually a cost. There's not a cost associated with mentors but if you're unable to do that, you could try and partner with someone at work, or you could just try and partner with someone in your life. But it is about getting some kind of feedback loop, like an assessment and then working through it. And by working through it you do get that exposure therapy, but it isn't something like a one time conversation. You'd have to work through it, have that conversation a number of times over and over and over again and you get there and it's just like anything you're trying to get through. Repetition, focusing, improvement, that's how you get through it.
[00:02:58] Speaker A: How can boosting my emotional intelligence actually make me a better leader and help my team perform better?
[00:03:04] Speaker B: You're going to be able to create predictive models for your behavior and their behavior and from that you're going to be able to plan for the best outcomes from conversation to conversation. I want to get into it a little bit further and give a bit of a caveat. Emotional intelligence is a concept that is valid and I think there are some really good tools that are associated with it. But it's like any business concept that has tools. It can be overused. It can be. People can talk about it in this way that it sounds like there's like all this depth, but they actually have a very vague understanding of it. I'd say specifically emotional labor can create situations where people become overtly indulgent with how they express themselves. And it can also be a place where people who aren't necessarily necessarily very comfortable with emotion or maybe who aren't really great at reading other people's emotions, it can make them feel precluded from the conversation and like, oh, you don't have a conversation part of this because you're, you don't, you don't feel you're good at it. It, it's not this like ultra catch all tool that I think it can, it can be presented as, and I don't want to say it's not important because of course it's certainly important. But do know that emotional intelligence is just part of being a great leader, a great employer, a great team member. It is a part and it's very worthy to know about, but it's not the only thing. So with that, when I think about emotional intelligence, there's, you know, there's different models that have different parts. I'd say the part that I'd really encourage people to focus on around emotional intelligence is self awareness and self regulation as well as empathy. So like really understanding other people, what they're feeling and then also what motivates other people. So with that, you should really be thinking about understanding yourself, understanding other people, but also the environment that you work in and like the social dynamics of the environment that you work in, because those often bring all sorts of pressures and encouragers into people's world that stimulate all sorts of behaviors. So by understanding yourself and your motivations and how to regulate your emotions, you're going to have a predictive model about how you act in situations. Like, are you someone who gets really excited about an idea but you hate process? Or are you someone who can get defensive when they're pushed on? Or are you someone who is non communicative when there's a lot of stress and pressure? So it's about creating predictive models for yourself, but also predictive models for other people. Like if you can understand how they feel and how they act, when they feel certain ways and what their motivations are behind those things, you'll have predictive models for them. The reason predictive models matter so much is you want to always be thinking about framework, frequency, duration and impact. When it comes to your behaviors and the other people's behaviors, you want to create situations where the frequency of the healthy behaviors is increased, the duration of those behaviors is increased, and that means the impact is increased. Where behaviors you're trying to avoid, you're trying to create situations where they go the opposite direction. So emotional intelligence and being really comfortable with that, and I'd say well versed in it, is helpful in that way. But going back to the beginning of my answer, being also really good at what you do, understanding the business landscape that you're a part of, understanding the strategy you're supposed to be executing on, understanding the tools and systems that you're, that you're, that you're utilizing, understanding what the responsibilities of your role is like, all of these things totally matter as well. So it's not just emotional. Emotional intelligence is like the catch all. It is a piece of the puzzle and you gotta have all the other pieces as well to be really, really good at leading.
[00:06:48] Speaker A: During the last few years, I've struggled with deadlines. But within the last six months I've worked on this and haven't been late on anything. However, my feelings were hurt last week when a colleague made a comment, pointed at me about the importance of meeting an upcoming deadline. Can't they see I'm actively trying? Should I address this with them?
[00:07:09] Speaker B: You should definitely not address it with them. And instead you should be patient and accountable. This is What I mean by that, you did have this behavior of not being able to deliver things on time. You got the feedback and you worked on it. So good for you. That's awesome. You've created that change. The Patience piece is that perception. So people being able to perceive and believe that a change has happened and is now the new reality that follows a change behavior by about six to eight months. So if you get a piece of feedback and you actually do change it and that change is for real and there's a new behavior, your audience is probably not going to really understand that as being a new reality for about six to eight months. And it's kind of like being around someone who's growing their hair long. So if they got their hair short and they're growing their hair long and you're with them like five days a week, it's going to take you a long time to realize how long that their hair is actually growing long. Just one day you'll be like, oh, your hair is growing long. It's the same thing when we're around people all the time and there's been a behavior that we just accept as, like, this is how it is. When that change has happened, it takes a long time for people to really clue in, like, there's a new reality and you got to be consistent with that behavior. It doesn't mean you have to be a million percent, like, oh, totally, like, locked in. You know, you can have a couple slips here and there, but overall, you have to have consistency for around six to eight months and even as long as a year before people are really going to believe that change has happened. But let me go to the accountability side of it. Yeah. Like, I mean, this is a behavior that you yourself identify as true, and so should your feelings be hurt? I mean, it sucks when people don't believe that we've put in the effort to change. At the same time, how long were you doing that behavior? You know, there's probably people being driven crazy by someone who wasn't making their deadlines for a long period of time. And maybe in some cases that hurt their feelings that there wasn't something delivered that mattered to them. So I understand after you put a lot of effort into changing something, you want that feedback, like, hey, you've totally nailed it. You're, you know, you're doing it. But from an accountability standpoint, it was probably something that people were managing long enough that of course they're going to say something for the next while. So just be patient, be a bit accountable. That this was a thing and you'll get there.
[00:09:27] Speaker A: I'm retiring next year and I lead a large team. I'm proud of the work we've done and I wish the company continued success. What can I do to help create a smooth transition?
[00:09:37] Speaker B: Do a talent assessment for your team as quickly as you can and then create 12 month development plans for every single person on your team and make sure that those plans are ready to go for the next leader. So I'll tell you why this matters. When you're someone who's been a longstanding member of a team and you've got all this history like you're, you're retiring so you've got a huge professional history, you've really got eyes on everybody there in terms of like their potential, where they could grow and where some of their challenges are. So I would encourage you to do a baseline talent assessment just to get the data or where everyone is. And most companies have like an internal system how to do that or if you partner with a company like ours, they can provide you with the tool. But do a baseline talent assessment for the whole team and then from there build development plans for every single one of your direct reports. That should be about a year long development plan and that development plan should be something that's like got a lot of meat on it, that's intended to help them address some of their challenges and to also like optimize the areas for growth. That means when a new leader comes in, you're going to be able to give them the brief on every single person where they're at. They just had this talent assessment done. You're going to be able to leave them with some really, really strong notes about where you think this team can go. Also including like who their backfill potentially could be and like what the growth opportunities are for people in the next few years. You might even want to be able to add in some stuff about retention and possibilities for flight risk. But it all starts with talent assessment development plan.
[00:11:02] Speaker A: I've received feedback recently that I come across as aggressive in meetings and I feel like this is an unfair characterization. I like a good debate and advocate for the ideas that I think are best because I believe in them. If you can't handle the heat, you should get out of the kitchen. What are your thoughts on the saram? I'm worried that having a reputation for being aggressive will hold me back from getting promotions.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: It will hold you back from getting promotions. And you should consider ways that you can express your passion and belief in things without being considered aggressive. All right, before I get fully into the answer, I just want to point out, although you're using the word aggressive, I want to sub in the word intimidating, and then we can kind of build it from there. So there's a difference between being perceived as intimidating and acting intimidating. They're two very different things. I'm going to give you an example. Our youngest daughter practices Jiu Jitsu. She's six, and she goes to a gym that's near our house, and it is the most welcoming place. The instructors are amazing. They're kind. They're so, like, just nice when you go in the door. And I find them very intimidating. Why? Because they're all, like, total, like, masters of Jiu Jitsu, and I am just, like, some skinny nerd. And so when I'm around them, I'm like. Like, I feel like kind of this, like, little wimpy dude. They don't at all act intimidating to me. So they're not people who are acting aggressively to me or being crappy to me or anything. It's is that I view them as being highly proficient at something that I think is really admirable and I'd love to do.
[00:12:41] Speaker A: So.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: I get a little nervous around them when I'm around these people where I'm like, wow, they're really. They're really, really good at this, like, really highly physical thing. People who are proficient at things, more than proficient, or really, really strong at things, can sometimes be considered to be intimidating, but not because they're acting intimidating. They're not acting crappy or dismissive or aggressive or toxic. It's just that their level of being able to do something is kind of awe inspiring. And people who would want to be that good at that or move in that orbit can often be like, oh, I'm nervous when I'm around them, or intimidating around them. The reason I bring this up is that when people get any kind of feedback like this, one of the places that I go to first is, hey, this might not be true at all. And it might just be that you're very confident in speaking and that you're really, really articulate, and you speak about things deeply or in a deeply passionate way, and that there's actually nothing at all going on that would be considered aggressive or intimidating. It could just be that the people around you find that manner of speaking intimidating. But that doesn't mean it's something that you have to change. So I'll put that out there as the caveat to this conversation. But let's go to the flip side. Is it is your job when you get feedback like that to figure out if you are actually being aggressive. And so, like I said, there's a difference between being perceived as intimidating because you're so good at something that people find it intimidating versus acting intimidating. So there's a difference of being like. In this case, it's like, are you actually acting aggressive? And that would be raising your voice, cutting people off, being dismissive of ideas, not listening, talking over people, using physical or verbal presence that shuts down conversations or makes people uncomfortable. And to be really frank, those are career blockers. Nobody wants to work with people where they start using tactics to shut down conversation or essentially win conversation. Nobody wants to do that. So it is really up to you to figure that out. How do you do it? Got to do a lot of video work. And what do I mean by video work? You should be looking for situations where you're going to have difficult conversations on phone or on video, and you should be recording those things. You should not be recording both sides of the conversations, though, because that's creepy and illegal. What you should do instead is you should have the audio of the other person going into earbuds so only you hear it, but you should be recording your audio on a separate device. And the reason you do that is not so that you have something to use against people later on. It's so that you can go back and review how quickly am I speaking? So what's my cadence of speech? How's my tone of voice? If you're on video, what's my physical posture? What's going on with this area, which I referred to as zone one between the chin and the tip of the nose, and then zone two between the tip of the nose and the top of the forehead. How are my eyes activating? What's my mouth doing? What kind of words am I using? Am I using encouragers? So encouragers are physical indicators that you're listening to someone, like nodding ahead. And verbal encouragers, like, huh? Yep. When people are trying to get someone to shut up, they throw their encouragers off. They speed up nodding like, yeah, shut up so I can start talking. Or they start going, uh, huh, huh, huh. If they're using them well, they should be falling on pace with the conversation. So you encourage more dialogue. You want to be seeing what you're doing physically. You want to hear what you're doing in terms of sentence structure, words, all of that, because it is your job to get a hold of it. So the first Place is, is it that I'm just really good at expressing myself and people are taking that the wrong way. It could be tempting to go down that lane, by the way, you might be like, I'm just so darn good at this and people just can't handle it. I mean, it's really up to you about how well you hold up the mirror here. It is actually real for some people. Sometimes people really are just intimidated by how comfortable people are expressing themselves. So you've got to have a real gut check here around. That gut check is if it is aggressive, get feedback from your boss, get feedback from your peers, but definitely start taping yourself. And you should be taping yourself frequently just so you have a sense of what your baseline is when you're communicating normally versus what it is when you're in a more elevated space. But the work is yours to do and if you don't do it, it will be a career blocker.
[00:17:07] Speaker A: I enjoy a good debate and so does a co worker of mine. We usually keep it professional. But recently our disagreement felt more like a boxing match. They got aggressive, ignored other viewpoints, and even made jabs about my decisions. How can I handle this behavior and steer the conversation back to a productive discussion?
[00:17:27] Speaker B: I would check in with your co worker and see if that was a one off thing because they were having an off day or you having an off day and the conversation went the right way or if there was an issue. And this is an important thing to do because you have a history of debate.
So to get into it a little bit further, if this was something where like you weren't used to kind of debating ideas back and forth with this person, it would be a different kind of conversation. But because you both have this mutual, like, you like to get into it with each other, you like to chop it up. There is a trust there. There's kind of like an implicit, like you both agree that this is the way that you work on problems. So if it didn't work this time, then something must be up. And it could be as simple as they had a moderately bad day or some weird little thing happened, or maybe something really big is happening in their life and they became reactive. But on the flip side, holding up a mirror for yourself, maybe the way that you were interacting, the conversation was off, or maybe there's been some kind of low lying tension that you haven't been picking up on. It's healthy to address it and I would address it in the most direct but also the coolest way. Just ask them to have a meeting. It could be a coffee or it could be, you know, in a meeting room and just bring it up and be like, hey, you know, is there anything you want to chat on? I just want to make sure we clear the air. In most cases, people are going to be totally cool about it, and in some cases they aren't. And in the cases they aren't, then all you need to do is be like, right, well, you know, is this something that we just kind of want to leave behind us and move forward, or is it something that we, you know, we need some help, that we need a third party, like our boss to work on? My gut, based on the info that you added in, it was probably just an off day. And either they're a little embarrassed about it and would probably be really thankful that you brought it up, or they're just a little embarrassed about it and they're going to bring it up and they're just going to be like, oh, it's no big deal. Let's leave it behind us. If it's the third thing where there is something to work through, great. Work through. It shouldn't be a big deal.
[00:19:29] Speaker A: We want to hear from you, our audience, to submit your questions, send us a message, drop us a DM or comment on our social channels.
