Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Like, what am I doing? Why am I going to go to med school? This is way cool, right? And I am getting an impact that is so significant, that's going to reach so many patients, right? And so it was at that point that I was like, no, I'm sticking down the engineering path. Maybe I'll come back to med school later, but I'm going to stick with this for a few more years. And I obviously never looked back. So now I get to work with doctors, and they're incredible, incredible people. But I haven't regretted it for a second.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. I am super psyched about today's guest. This has been someone that I've spent a ton of time with, really been able to walk a path together, and it's just been so cool to see what they've done in terms of just being an amazing business leader, an amazing people leader, and just someone that I just respect and really enjoy spending time with. This is a very cool conversation for people who are interested, of course, just generally in leadership, but also about the ideas of leadership in the space of technology and what it takes to run like, an organization full of ultra smart, super capable people and how to make all of the pieces work together, including the human component of it. So before we get to it, though, please rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast. It totally helps. I'd really appreciate it. My name is Aram Arslanian, and this is one step beyond Steph. Welcome to the show.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: Hi, how are you? Great to be here.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: I am fantastic. I'm very excited to have you here. So, for the uninitiated, for those who don't know, who are you and what do you do?
[00:01:56] Speaker A: My name is Stephanie Cloaky, and I work for a company called Becton Dickinson. We are one of the largest medtech companies in the world with over 70,000 employees globally. And I have the honor and privilege of leading our peripheral intervention business unit specifically around research and development. So I lead our research and development team for PI.
[00:02:22] Speaker B: Okay, so peripheral intervention, what in the world does that mean?
[00:02:27] Speaker A: Great question. So, peripheral intervention. As I said, this is a medical device company, and we are focused on chronic progressive diseases, but specifically in four disease state areas. So the first disease state area is peripheral arterial disease. The best way to describe it is think of clogged arteries that are full of junk, and you need to go get that junk out so you can get the blood flow down to the foot. Another disease space for us is venous disease. So same thing. It's the veins in your legs. And our goal is to get the blood flowing from your feet back up to the heart. What causes this typically is if you have bad valves in your veins and it doesn't want to bring the blood flow up. Another focus area for us is end stage kidney disease. So these are patients who have had chronic kidney disease throughout their life, and ultimately their kidneys fail, so they have to go on kidney dialysis. And our job is to try to keep these patients on dialysis for as long as their life will enable them. And then our last space is in oncology. But in oncology, that's a very broad disease state space. We are focused around the interventional devices that obtain biopsy samples or a product called ports, which is delivering chemotherapy. And then, of course, we're moving also into localized, targeted chemotherapy treatment space as well.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: Wow.
Thank you for explaining that.
When you're thinking about this technology, is it mostly kind of iterating on things that you already have or that have already been created, or is it innovating, or is it like creation of new things? What is it?
[00:04:12] Speaker A: Great question. It's actually a little bit of everything. So I would say we do iterative designs where we have a great historical portfolio with products that are as old as 40 years, 50 years, and have been on the market a long time, very well established, and we might iterate, but I'd say predominantly we're bringing new technologies and new treatments to market. So these are minimally invasive devices that are designed and developed by our incredible research and development team. These are a group of incredible engineers. And so then we're doing mostly brand new innovations to try to solve these chronic diseases.
[00:04:49] Speaker B: So from the innovation space, does it just go from like, oh, hey, this would be a cool idea. How does it go from ideation to actually making something happen?
[00:04:59] Speaker A: That's a great question.
Ideas really come from anywhere, right? So it's a long journey and a very long process. I would say most of our products, from the time someone has the bing, the idea that says, hey, I want to get this to market to the time it actually comes to market, can take anywhere. Fastest is probably three to four years.
Longer and more typical if it's what we'd call a class three PMA product for FDA that requires human clinical trials, that's often in that seven year time frame, could be even longer, depending so long cycles, long development cycles from start to finish.
As I mentioned, from an idea perspective, we have a very robust process. So the ideas right now, our innovation funnel has over 100 ideas, just sitting there that are ideas that our teams have said, hey, this is a great idea waiting to be acted on.
We're actively working on probably about 20 to 25 ideas, which we would call our idea phase. Of those 20 to 25, we're lucky if maybe ten to 20% of them actually ever get to market. So in the idea phase, it's really about quickly identifying what are the killer questions that are going to kill this product?
Do we have the tech to answer the solution? Is the market going to be able to handle it? And then when we say yes to those questions, and we could spend two months in idea phase, we could spend two years in idea phase, then it moves into an active project, and that's where then we're really saying, once it goes active, this is a product we're going to bring to market, and our goal is to complete it and launch it to patients.
[00:06:44] Speaker B: In that idea phase, is it just practical questions, or are there business questions? Or they're kind of like, for the good of humanity questions? What are the types of questions that get you to kill a project versus bring an idea forward?
[00:06:59] Speaker A: This is really good. Yes to all of those. So they're absolutely business questions. So does the market.
We always want to. First and foremost, we need to solve an unmet need. So that's probably the first question. We'd say, is there a clinical problem to be solved? Because we can design. And R and d engineers are great at designing widgets all day long, but if they don't actually solve a true clinical problem, it's going to do no good. Right? So first question is, what is the true clinical unmet need that we're trying to solve? And that will make a difference? Once we have that established, we really focus on two things. What's the clinical value proposition? So what's the value it's going to bring to our customers and our clinicians and our patients? That gets to the, hey, this is like, it feels good, right? And then the second one is, is there an economic value proposition? Why would our customers buy it? Why would CMS say that it could be reimbursed as well? So those are kind of the next things we establish. Then we also look at, okay, we got this idea. It has two great value props. We know that it can make a difference clinically and economically. Now we say, can we find a technical solution? Does the tech exist today to be able to try to bring the problem to market? That could be, hey, maybe we don't have the technical skill set and we're going to outsource it, right? Or we'd say, you know what? It's too far along or it doesn't fit our technical strengths. And the other side point would be like the business piece, which would say, hey, is the market big enough to make it worth the cost to develop this product? Because as a business, obviously we want to bring good solutions to customers, but we have to get a good return on investment back to the business as well. So we could have the best solution. But if no one's going to pay for it and it's only going to be a buck per, it's not going to do any good, right, because it'll never get used.
[00:08:47] Speaker B: So from the idea perspective, are these ideas that are all in house within your group or with any kind of group like yours, or are there ideas that maybe come from a smaller company that you bring in, or just like some group where you partner with them or you bring the idea into your space, or is it kind of all of that?
[00:09:04] Speaker A: I would say it's all of it. Again, like I said, ideas come from anywhere. One thing that we really try to celebrate is that R and d engineers aren't the only ones that come up with the ideas. Any function within our business? Quality, regulatory, marketing, sales. Absolutely. Sales, operations, everyone has great ideas. So it can stem from our team. It definitely is with physicians. So we spend a lot of time doing ethnographic research where we partner with our physicians and our customers and just observe what they're doing all day long. And we'll see problems that they don't even know because doctors are great problem solvers, and so they could be, in a case, performing a procedure, and we see that as a big problem. But to them, they're like, that's no big deal. It's what I've been doing for the last 15 years. Right? So that is how some of our ideas stem. Doctors will bring ideas to us, the physicians we work with, and absolutely companies. So we do a lot with small companies or universities where we'll look at early research that's done at a university level.
I'd say pretty much all of that and above. And like I said, our sales team, they're in the field with the docs all day, every day. They always have tons of great ideas that they're saying, look, this is a problem and we need a solution for it.
[00:10:19] Speaker B: It makes sense. But it's also amazing, because when you think of technology or any of these things, you're like, oh, that happens away. That happens up on some mountaintop somewhere. There's no way that just a person who isn't an engineer or doesn't have that kind of deep expertise would be a part of it. But basically, it could come from almost anywhere. Anywhere. As long as it can go through the right process and make sense from both, like, a health perspective and a business perspective. It's something you consider.
[00:10:44] Speaker A: Yes, you got it. And for us as well. Look, ideas can come from anywhere. And strategically, at our core, it has to fit into our spaces. So we focus and we say, it's got to fit our disease states. What are we trying to address for these patients? Our call points to the specific type of doctors that we work with. Right. That's another reason we might kill a project, because if we don't have a sales structure to support it, it's not going to work. Right. And then, of course, tech as well.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: So if an idea gets killed, does it kind of go in like, hey, we might revisit this another place, or we might push this over to a different business unit, or is it just gone?
[00:11:18] Speaker A: No, it's never just gone. And you can ask our teams. We revisit ideas that we've killed time and time again. So, as an example, within our Eskd space, there's a portion of a treatment population for our patients, which is peritoneal dialysis.
We don't play in that space today. We have reassessed that probably every two years for as long as I've been with the company. And so every time that someone is like, again. Right, but it's good because market times change, or reimbursement structures change or technology changes. So once an idea is dead, it's never really dead. Right. It's just put aside and wrapped with a pretty bow saying, not right now.
[00:12:01] Speaker B: I love that. And I also love the idea that you view something, let's say, every two years, three years, five years, because as time changes, the perspective and the ability of a business to do something with something can change so much. But have you ever had something that you went back to, and then you were like, okay, now's the time?
[00:12:23] Speaker A: It's a good question, actually. Yes. And this one I can communicate. Well, I know there's probably multiple, but this is an immediate example, and I can communicate it because it's commercially known. We have a product under development right now. It's called the tips stent graph device. So trans hepatic intrajugular portosystemic shunt is what that stands for. It's specifically for patients who have liver. Who are in liver failure or liver cirrhosis, moving towards liver failure. We assessed going into this market for the last, same thing, as long as I've been with the company, over 15 years. And at the time when we assessed it previously, because we had the tech, we had the knowledge and the skill set to do it, but the market at the time, for us, looking at the US market, it was not big enough to justify the cost to do this study. However, over time, what's happened since is we've significantly grown our sales structure and footprint in China. Especially when I was with the legacy bard business and when we were acquired by BD. BD had a very large infrastructure and sales support in China. And that China market is where all the potential was. And so multiple years ago, we said, you know what? Now's the time we can do it. The return on investment makes sense because our market reach is not just us and EU, it's now global. And the propensity of this disease is heavily driven in China. So that is one good example. We're in a clinical trial right now. We just enrolled our 10th patient like a week ago. So, yeah, very exciting.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: I love that idea, that an idea can be so cool, but this is just not the time, for whatever reason, but at some point could be that, like, this is it. Finally the way that I would refer to it. And Mike's going to laugh at that. Mike, who's just off camera, is like, sometimes when you're playing in a band, you've just got a riff and you can't make that riff work in a song. You're like, this is so good, but I can't jam it in anywhere. And then one day, like years later, you're like, this is the time for this rap.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: That's awesome.
[00:14:34] Speaker B: So going to the idea stage, though, you get these ideas going, you're starting to ask these tough questions.
I would imagine sometimes people get attached to ideas and they don't want to let them go.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, very much so. Even us as leadership, right? Like, we all have our pet favorite projects or things that we're really passionate about and we don't want to walk away from it is, I'd say actually saying no to things is the hardest thing to do, but the most important thing to do. And being able to realize that it's not personal or now is just not the time, but 100% it is very tough to say no and to walk away from something, especially as an engineer, when you're like, I got the solution. And the commercial team saying, but we're never going to be able to sell that. Right? That's real tough. Or a commercial team is like, why can't we do this? We're like, guys, that's unobtainium. Impossible. It doesn't exist. We can't get there yet, right? So, yeah, for sure, it can be difficult.
[00:15:34] Speaker B: So how do you manage that with a cross functional group of people who are all like, idea people and they're super into this thing? How do you get into that space where it doesn't damage relationships or cause unnecessary friction?
[00:15:48] Speaker A: One thing we actually started, and this is the credit of an individual who works on my team. I do not want to take credit. This is all his idea is. We have a yearly spirit of innovation award ceremony that's local to our business unit, where we recognize our innovators, our ideators, you name it. He, a couple of years ago said, let's create a best kill award so that we're recognizing teams for killing projects. Right? And it is my favorite. It's my favorite medal. We give everyone medals that they wear, and this medal has a skull and crossbones on it. Right? It's the one unique one.
I think that's one example where it's, hey, it's okay to kill. We actually want teams to come to us and tell us why something won't work or why now is not the time. So that's one thing that we've done to try to celebrate killing programs, because it is just as important, if not even more important, than the pushing programs forward.
[00:16:43] Speaker B: Amazing. I love that.
So when a project gets past the idea phase and you get it, like, you go through all the trials or any of the things you need to do, what are the steps leading up to a launch and a successful launch getting something out into the market?
[00:16:58] Speaker A: Great question. So that is really where pedal to the metal from a project perspective. So we have to follow the guidelines of FDA and all of our global international regulatory bodies. So they dictate, hey, minimally, you have to do X, Y and Z. And we have what's called a design control process that we're required to follow to meet each deliverable. So for us, it's a multi phase process. Planning phase is the early phase. So that's when you're saying, hey, I got a concept, but now I need to prove that I can make it work. Next phase is what we call development. That's when we've finalized and solidified our design and frozen our product design. So we're like, okay, now this is it. We might have had five different or ten different iterations. Now we've downselected to one. This is it. This is the final one. We freeze the design, and this then moves into what we call qualification phase. And that phase for us is where we're executing on just.
We've tested thousands of units up until this point, but now this is truly all the design verification, validation, testing, process validations that we have to do to get it into operations. So we have to prove the design side, and then we have to show not only that it works from a design, but also that we can make it thousands of times again. Right. That we can make it repeatably and reliably forever. And that's when we move it into our manufacturing facility. Certain products, depending on what their classifications are. If you're a class two device, you file something called a 510K, no clinical trials needed. You use animal testing and other means, cadaver testing, to really prove the device is safe. But if it's class three, you go into an ide clinical study. And that's then when we would move into clinical trials, like that tips device that I just was describing to you.
[00:18:48] Speaker B: So when all the trials are done and you're literally like, we are about to start selling this to people, what happens?
[00:18:55] Speaker A: Well, first it goes to FDA, and they have to tell us that we're good, right? So they say, yes, you're good to go. Right. And that's always a fun, exciting process to work through with FDA. But once that's done and they say you're good, you can commercialize. That is when we pull in and leverage our commercial team. So, I mean, they're leveraged in a part of the process the whole way through. But marketing really, at the end, steps up and they're driving all of the claims information that we had to justify to say why this is going to be better and valuable for customers and patients doing physician engagement. And then we all like the people who design it on the team. They get to go out and participate in those first clinical cases, and then it's pedal to the metal trainings for the sales team. Our sales team gets super excited about it, right? And then they're taking it out and it's like you can launch in multiple ways, but if you're doing what's called a full market release, you would be building up thousands and thousands of units and then arming your sales force with all of that and the training necessary to go out to customers and have them start telling their docs why this product is the best thing since sliced bread. Going to solve all their problems?
[00:20:01] Speaker B: Heck, yeah.
So a question, and this is like me dating myself totally hard. But if we go back to technology, like, let's say VCR or anything like that, they're regional, right? So there'd be like a north american VCR, there'd be a european VCR, and that you'd have tapes or whatever. They could only play in certain regions. Now, again, I know this is like real 80s perspective, maybe 90s perspective. Is there anything like that with metal technology? Is it kind of universal across all markets?
[00:20:29] Speaker A: So I'd say it's predominantly universal, where we typically try to have single codes that are the same product for everywhere in the world. But when a region gets them, it'll change depending on. Or the time is different depending on the regulatory requirements in each region. Right. So it used to be that Europe was actually the most straightforward. So we would launch a lot of our products in Europe first while we were undergoing still FDA reviews. In the US, that's changed. Now Europe's one of the toughest requirements was something called MdR. So we're launching in the US first and then Europe. China's tough. China has over a two year regulatory review cycle for our product type. So with FDA, it's six months, with China, it's two years.
And so that then goes later and longer.
So timing is different depending on the region or the country. Also, like, Brazil is a long one. Brazil is like ten months.
However, sometimes there's specific product needs in a specific region, right? So, like, as an example, in China, there are some very key specific design or clinical requirements needed that maybe aren't needed in the US. So we have current products under development that are specifically being designed for China because that market is big enough and there's a lot of people in China, right? And so it makes sense to then do local design for a specific unmet need, as an example.
[00:21:53] Speaker B: So technology in terms like Medtech, if you don't know about it, then when you find out about it, you're like, yeah, I guess that makes sense. When I go into a hospital, hospitals aren't just built with all these machines in there. Like, someone has to be like, oh, I want that, or, we need this. But I had never thought about brands. And when I first became aware of medtech as an industry, I was like, well, yeah, that makes sense, but how do you sell medical? How do you sell one versus another?
Even if you boil it down to, like, why does someone like an iPhone versus an Android? And some of it is just literal, like, oh, I just happen to like Apple's branding or Android's branding. There's nothing more than that. So I'd imagine medtech has some really hard things like, oh, that's just a better device, but there's also probably just some brand preference as well.
[00:22:45] Speaker A: Well, I think there's definitely brand preference. When I think about our sales team and what they do. Look, yeah, engineering is tough, R and D is very tough. We're designing something from nothing, from scratch to something. Right. So it is a very long process. On the sales side though, having ridden, I don't even know if that's word, having rode with my sales counterparts.
The work that they do and the hurdles they have to, they have so many customers, right? You'd think the physician, so like we work with interventional radiologists as an example, they go talk to the radiologist and they're using clinical data. So they get the data from the study and they say, here's our data. This is why our data tells us that this product is better and why you should be using this product. Oh, and we designed it so it's easier for you to use and these other features. Right?
So the doctor might say, well, this is great, but then what happens is they have to go to something called a VAT committee, which is like a full hospital system committee, to then justify that it's worth getting another product off the shelf to replace with this product. So you need champions to fight for it. You got the procurement person that's saying that's going to cost me more money. Oh, is it reimbursed? Is it reimbursed at the right levels? I mean there are so many factors that come into play and it might be the best thing for the patient. And of course that's every hospital's goal is to provide the best tools and skill set for the patient. But there are a lot of competing priorities when it comes to reimbursement levels and customer preference, brand preference, slight nuances of one or the other. Our goal is always though, to provide the best clinical data that then is going to be able to say, there's no question asked. This is why you should buy our product, right, and use our device instead of the device over here to the right. But once again you get into commodities, right, and syringes are commoditized items. Certain aspects of our devices, PTA balloons, angioplasty balloons are becoming more commoditized. And so then it all comes down to the dollar, right? And they're all good enough, right. So really try to convince me why this one's better than that one. You can get to a point where that gets very tough for our sales reps.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: Being outside of all that, it's such an amazing conversation for me just to just even observe, let alone be a part of. Specifically, I was in the hospital with a family member not that long ago and was keenly aware of what devices belong to what companies. And I was like, I wonder if I know anyone who was a part of that, or I wonder why this one versus that one. And then I started, obviously with my background, I started thinking, well, what's the psychology of why this is in the room versus anything else? And it's so wild to think, of course it's business, so it goes down to a dollar and the use and how effective it is. But of course, brand stuff would play a piece of it and ease of working with a company and ease of the sales process, all that. So it's beyond just engineering a great device. It really is about having an amazing ecosystem of professionals all in there, right down to just the human relationship between someone who wants to sell something and someone who wants to buy something.
[00:25:48] Speaker A: 100% agree completely. You could have the best product, but bad customer relations, bad customer service. Hospitals may say, I don't want to work with you. Right. Or you could have the best customer service and maybe a good enough product. Right? Like, I don't think anyone in medtech is making bad products. Everyone's making good products. But maybe it's good. It's not like the best best, but it's not bad. It's good enough. You could get the sale, no problem, because the company is easier to work with from the human side, for sure.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: Well, with that in mind, how does a team like yours work with marketing and sales and regulatory and all of those things? Because it's a pretty complex ecosystem that all of you have to work in together, and you do actually have to collaborate really deeply. So how does that work?
[00:26:33] Speaker A: Great question. Cross functional relationships are key to success at their core. And it's something I learned 15 years ago. I mean, I'd always been very lucky early in my career having great cross functional teams, but it wasn't until we had a specific leader. This was, like I said over 15 years ago, and he came into the business unit. I'd been with the company for two or three years at that point he said, we're changing everyone's seating. All of you guys are going to sit cross. Functionally, you don't sit in your function. Your R and D isn't sitting with R and D, and marketing isn't sitting with marketing, and quality isn't sitting with quality. Your team is your product team. It's the team that you're working with to develop whatever product you're working on. And we all did this massive uptick, like, switch everyone around and all of a sudden are sitting right there next to each other in the office. R and D, quality, regulatory, marketing, operations, sales is mostly in the field, but when they're in the office, right? And so you ultimately are sitting there because that's where the person's right next to you. You hear the conversations. You really are making that human connection to make sure you're, hey, like, if I'm talking to my r d person, I got this challenge, and the quality engineer is like, but did you think about this? You don't forget about this, guys. All of that kind of naturally builds, and it really did shift the culture at PI, and I think is what has made us at PI so great for so long, because we've really held strong to that, right, to saying, look, we need to sit. You still sit with your R and D team, but right there is the rest of your cross functional team just to drive those conversations and collaboration and to keep that engagement and build those relationships. So, 100% agree the product will not be successful if everyone's working in silos. It just won't. It's unlikely to succeed.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: Well, going to PI's really strong culture, and as you and I have talked about, I'm really fortunate that I get to work with a lot of companies worldwide, and I get to work with a lot of different business units. And I can say with a lot of confidence that PI, just in general, is really one of the most wonderful groups of people working together, from senior leadership. Right. All the way to the front line. Of course, I haven't met everyone and spent tons of time with everyone. It is very healthy. Group works very well together. If we go specifically to your group, your group has a pretty unique culture, like ultra open people, genuinely like and get along with each other.
How did you develop that?
[00:29:07] Speaker A: I don't know that it was just me. I think it's the group in general. Right. First, I think what helps is people who do the job that we do really are, we all want to make a difference. You go into healthcare as an engineer. Engineers are engineers. We are data driven pretty black and white. Some of us can navigate the gray a little bit more than others, but we're all still, like tech geeks. But for our group, I think having that broader purpose, which is to help humankind and to make a difference with our products, I think that is kind of just one foundational piece that just links all of us together innately, right?
Not that other people who aren't in healthcare aren't good people, but it just makes us all innately like we want to be doing good, right? Like, we all went into this for a reason and for a purpose. I think that helps. And then, I don't know. I think we like to have a good time.
There's no problem that we can't solve, right? Like, give us a problem. Even in the hardest times, we're like, we got this, we can solve it. And we also still try to have fun, right? I'm a believer, and we work really hard, but we also have to celebrate and have fun at the same time. Right? And so let's recognize and reward our work as simple things as, like with my core team during COVID we were doing stupid stuff, like having a scavenger hunt on a team call or whatever it might be to shake it up, to award ceremonies, to a happy hour here or there. I don't know, things like that. And I also think, once again, getting out and getting to see the work that you're doing and the impact that you're having makes a huge difference.
So pre COVID, we spent a lot of time with getting out. You could be an entry level engineer straight out of school, and we're going to get you, your first year to see a case, to go stand by a physician and observe what's going on and actually see a patient being treated with one of our products. And that is so impactful that I think it also just culturally really motivates you to say, this is what I'm doing and why it matters. And, hey, we're all in this together. Let's go make this happen. Right? That cultural piece, COVID made that tough. We're trying to get back to do it again. Right? And that's something we've been focused on in the last year. But I don't know, kind of blabbed a little bit there, but lots of pieces. Lots of pieces, lots of.
[00:31:28] Speaker B: And it's a really good answer. You didn't go on at all. It was a good answer because it's a tough question.
When people talk about culture, I always encourage caution because it sounds good. Like, we're going to have this culture of this or this culture of that, and people want to be a part of a good culture, whether it's the culture of your community or the culture of your team or the culture of your organization, everyone wants to be a part of something good. So when people are talking about it, I don't think it's some kind of like, I don't think people are doing it just to look good.
But being specific about culture and what people do to create good culture is really hard. It's a very difficult question. And everything you said there from just like, we like to have fun, we like to hang out with each other and do things like a scavenger hunt during COVID that's totally valid. That's great. So as creating more of a sense of purpose, of taking these kind of like, really early on career people and getting them out in the field and seeing real things, but culture as viewing it as how do I relate or how do I tell someone how I did it? That's a tough question.
So let me reverse engineer it, if I may.
When you were coming up, what were things outside of? Actually, I think the first thing you said was the leader who made you sit with project teams. That's a great example. But what are some examples that you saw early on in your career that made a difference for you in terms of creating a really purposeful and useful culture?
[00:33:05] Speaker A: For sure, the exposure to the clinical procedure and the impact of what we were making? The very first company I worked for was far beyond its time, because this was a long time ago as well, to date myself, and I won't say dates, but at that time, this was before video streaming was even a thing. And every week they live streamed in cases from the hospital to the office. This is a long time ago to be able to have everyone in the company who wanted to see the products and how they were used and what the issues were or the challenges they were facing. So that started it right, like seeing the impact and the purpose that culturally did it for me.
Again, I think the leaders built a sense of team. It was a lot about some of my closest friends in my first job, I'm still friends with today, and just realizing the spending time together and all doing what we liked. And so even when times were tough and we were stressed, we were like, we got this. And that was driven by our leader who was like, we're a team, we're a team, we're a team. We're all going to be working together. We're in this together. We're here together when things are tough.
And then also, same thing. Most impactful early in my career culturally, was after I launched my first product, I was given the opportunity to go to Europe to watch the first cases of the product that I had. Holy cow. Like, you just will never forget that experience, right? When you're nervous, you sit there and you're like, did I do everything I was supposed to? Did we missed something, and then you see an incredible clinical outcome. Right. So I think if I quantify that, it's bringing in the purpose, building the team environment, and then empowering and rewarding the work that was done. Right. Like those three things early on, really, I think, kind of summed up in the reverse engineer, and I guess I would say it's a great point, what I experienced trying to bring back to our team, too. Right?
[00:35:03] Speaker B: I love that. All right, can we turn to you specifically?
[00:35:07] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:35:08] Speaker B: Okay. So how did you ever find this? How did you start on this path as an easy space?
What did you think you wanted to do versus what you're doing today?
[00:35:20] Speaker A: So I thought I wanted to be a doctor for sure. I was bound and determined to be a doctor. I was very specific to, I wanted to be a cardiothoracic surgeon from the time I was, like, nine years old, because I watched Nova with my dad, and he was watching an open heart surgery. And I'm like, I'm going to do that. That is what I want to do someday. Right? So from that point, I was like, doctor all the way. My dad was an engineering professor, and so he was the one that was like, you love math, you love science, differentiate yourself. Don't just get the chemist. Not just because chemistry and biology degrees are very important degrees, but he's like, lots of people who apply to med school get science degrees. Think about getting in the engineering degree. So that's when I went into engineering and got the. I did a biomedical engineering undergrad, and I was planning to go to med school and apply to med school even after undergrad, but I wanted to build my resume up before I applied, and that's when I found the job, my first job, which was at a company called guiding corporation. They don't exist anymore, but an incredible place to start a career. And honestly, I was applying to med school when I got this opportunity to go work with doctors all day and see the products I used, and I'm like, what am I doing? Why am I going to go to med school? This is way cool, right? And I am getting an impact that is so significant, that's going to reach so many patients, right? And so it was at that point that I was like, no, I'm sticking down the engineering path. Maybe I'll come back to med school later, but I'm going to stick with this for a few more years. And I obviously never looked back. So now I get to work with doctors, and they're incredible, incredible people. But I haven't regretted it for a second.
[00:37:03] Speaker B: That is amazing. So how long were you working in the field before you went into any kind of leadership role? So before you got into any space where you had reports, it was probably.
[00:37:18] Speaker A: I don't know, about six or seven years, maybe seven years. Six or seven years before I had my first report.
[00:37:24] Speaker B: Now, were you gunning to get to a place where you started leading teams or did it just kind of happen?
[00:37:30] Speaker A: No, it just kind of happened. I was absolutely not gunning for it. Definitely not.
[00:37:35] Speaker B: And how come?
[00:37:38] Speaker A: It looked tough.
I actually had the opportunity. I was asked to lead, not direct reports, but lead a project team, and it was like a line extension, one of those iterative projects. And it was at my first company, and I was actually working in operations at the time in manufacturing engineering. And I led this project and it was very rewarding, but it was very tough because you had to influence a whole bunch of people that don't report to you, right. That this was the thing that mattered most and had to get done, successfully completed the project. This is when I changed companies and I came in and I remember interviewing for what was Bard, which is where I met now, which is BD. And someone asked me, well, how come you don't want to be like a project? Like, oh, hell no. Right? Like, been there, done that. That was way too hard. Right. I just want to be an individual contributor that's responsible for my work and my engineering skills. Right. And I'm good. Say la V, no need to lead projects. Right. So obviously that changed.
[00:38:41] Speaker B: Yeah. So what happened? How did you get to where you are now?
[00:38:45] Speaker A: So good question. So I was doing process development engineering for the first couple of years, and my project leader ended up leaving the company and for another good opportunity, and his boss said pretty much didn't give me the choice. He came in, he's like, steph, you have to lead the project, right? And I was like, oh. And he's like, you can do it. I got your back. I'll support you. Right? Like, you got this. So I was like, ok, I'll do it. Right? And I just wasn't really given the choice. I was kind of told that I had to do it, and that's kind of when it started back and I moved back into leadership and managing people and managing projects.
[00:39:21] Speaker B: All right.
[00:39:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:22] Speaker B: So for you, what was the big shift that you had to make when you went from being an individual contributor to not just project managing but actually leading people, having reports, being responsible for the development? What was the shift that you had to make?
[00:39:39] Speaker A: I mean, the biggest shift, I think, when people go from individual contributor to leading teams or people is knowing what they can hand off to someone else and trust and enable someone else to be able to do instead of micromanaging it or doing it for them. Right. And that is, I think, the hardest transition of actually moving into people management and team management is letting people guiding and coaching without actually doing right and knowing when to step in and when to step back. Right.
It's a fine balance. Fine balance, for sure.
[00:40:19] Speaker B: So what did you do to get good at it? And before you answer it, I'm going to pay you a compliment because you're very good at this. So what did you do? How long did it take you to get good at that delegating and kind of mentoring and coaching aspect?
[00:40:35] Speaker A: I think I'm still working on it. I still think I have room for improvement. I think it took me the last 15 years to hone and develop that skill. And I think as you move up, what often happens is, for me, I think it happened almost out of requirement than even choice, right. Because you get to a point where you have so much on your plate that you just can't do it all and you're about to lose your mind. Right. And so you get to a point where like, I got to get rid of this or I got to get rid of that, right. So I don't know specifically what I did besides just having too much on my plate and realizing I'm going to lose my mind if I don't start handing some of this stuff off and I can't expect to do. Right. So, yeah, I wish I had a better answer for you, Ram. I worked with you a lot the last four years. How about that part of it?
[00:41:24] Speaker B: You were already super awesome. And one of the cool things in our time together is being able to come in and see how strong everything is because then you're just building off something that's already very strong and healthy. But going back to that role change, was there ever any shift for you about having to get used to doing something different? And I'll give you an example. When I was a younger therapist, I didn't want to go into leadership because I always wanted to do therapy. I wanted to be with people and doing that work. And most of the leaders that I knew in the field, really, they just led therapists. They didn't actually do any of that one to one work, and I didn't want to be in that space where I was grieving that. So was there any of that?
I guess grief might not be the right word, but any of that kind of struggle of not being able to be as hands on as you once were, as you made the shift.
[00:42:23] Speaker A: I would actually say no. I don't think I ever grieved losing the work I was doing because all the new stuff was so exciting and different. And I know for me, one of the things that motivates me the most is doing new things, doing something different. I mean, it could be as stupid as, hey, kids, let's go to a new bounce house today, right? And I'm like, because it was different and I'd never done it before, to a brand new role or task or whatever else. So I don't actually think I ever grieved what I let go of. Because in engineering, you arguably never really stop.
And it's like a slow progression, right, of stepping away, where early on when you lead a project, you're still doing engineering and you're still engaged in maybe some of the engineering activities, and you might have to step in and test sometimes because you need more hands on. So it's like a slow walk versus. It's not like overnight you go from I was doing all hands on engineering to now I'm not doing any. I do joke now, though, that once you get into a role like mine, it's hard to justify that you're still an engineer because you spend more time in PowerPoint than you do in excel or in code or in a lab.
So I've definitely stepped away from that hands on engineering aspect, that's for sure. But it's fun when I do get to go in and see more, play with the toys that everyone's developing.
[00:43:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
So developing people and leading people is one side of a new skill that any leader would have to grow. But also moving from being more of a kind of like hands on engineer to being a business unit leader or really being in that. What did you have to work on in terms of more senior level cross functional engagements, like leading a group at a global level, what shifts did you.
[00:44:14] Speaker A: Have to make there definitely shifts. One of the biggest shifts, I think, for this specific role, like leading the full global R D team was really. You realize my team is R d, right? For sure. But my team is actually just as much, if not even more, my peers, like, it's Patty's team, right? It's my boss's team. And realizing he's expecting us, he's set a vision, and we got to make sure we're all moving together on that same vision. So keeping that cross functional alignment, which happens at every level, right. You have a team cross functional, and you got to keep that team aligned. So building those relationships is essential. Right.
Being able to have open and honest dialogues when things are working or aren't working. I think also realizing that data doesn't always drive every answer, that was a big difference for me. And moving into this role where I'd always worked for R and d leaders, and so it's all about data, and we want the data. Give us the data, and we use the data to drive a decision. When you aren't an engineer, sometimes decisions aren't made with data. A lot of times they aren't, right? And so being open to, for me, it was like, why aren't we just using the data? Right. It sounds like it's hard to describe, but a commercial mindset is a very different mindset than an engineering mindset. So that was a big shift, is trying to understand how my cross functional peers might think or perceive something or challenge something and why it matters to them, like what it means for them and their business and their team and their organization.
That was a big having to step back and say, it's not always data.
[00:45:51] Speaker B: The very short answer, you also said something that it's a compelling idea to me. It's something that I like a lot, is when you get to a certain level of leadership, the team that you lead is not necessarily the team that you're on. You might lead, like, a global organization, but the team that you're on is like your cross functional peers. That's your team, but you lead something else, definitely.
[00:46:15] Speaker A: And I'll jump in, because I didn't understand that until this role. And it was actually my previous boss who was the one who said it to me. So he gave me the job and he said, steph, who's your team? He said, my team's R and D. And he said, no, your team is us. And it took me like six to twelve months before I finally understood what he meant. Right. I'm like, what's he talking about? My team is R and D. Like, this is my job is to lead this team. And he was like, yeah, your job is to manage and guide the team, but this is your team. And it stuck with me. That conversation very clearly for the last however many years now.
[00:46:51] Speaker B: Why I honed in on that is, it's an interesting thing for me because it's not at all levels of an organization, is it like that? But at some point, some kind of like Misty point, the team that you're leading is not necessarily the team that you're on. You're actually part of something bigger. So for you, it was when it shifted into like a global role, is that.
[00:47:12] Speaker A: That's right. Yep. Into this VP role and that was global. Yes, that's right.
[00:47:17] Speaker B: Did it change the way that you led the team then?
[00:47:21] Speaker A: I think it brought a broader perspective into how I led the team. Right. So instead of it being about what R and D's mission is, it became about what the business's mission was. Right. So if the mission of the business is, we in this next year need to focus on getting our operations stronger, as an example, right. Reducing back order. Well, then it was like, guys, R and d matters, this is what we got to do. But we also need to support everything we can in operations to make this successful. So I think it's more the broad perspective of it's not always about just what your function is doing. You got to be thinking about what the business needs. And then I'm guiding my team to make sure I'm driving what the business needs.
[00:48:11] Speaker B: So coming to know you over the years and to know your team very well, you're such a great leader, a really great business person, and just a part of such a wonderful organization. One of the things that I believe is very true about you and the organization you lead is that you are super focused on patient wellness and just a real care for people in general.
So how do you manage that and how have you kind of scaled up your ability to handle this when it comes to having to make changes in an organization?
[00:48:48] Speaker A: Look, I think when you have to make changes within an organization, if it's structurally or project constraints, project shifts, it's really just about communicating the why. Right. And being clear to say, here's why we're doing what we're doing. So it goes back to like two years ago now. We had to stop quite a few programs because we had some significant headwinds with the world of COVID and post COVID, and we had quite a few programs underway. We had stop programs. We needed to focus on other things. And so it was about saying, hey, here's what we're doing. Here's the why. Our goal is to get back to business the way we were doing it right, and just lay out the data and the details and the facts, and the team was incredibly resilient, and still is, to just be able to say, got it, let's do it. Okay, let's get back. Right. And then, guess what? Six months later, we had to do a massive reorg and a massive change of what people were working on and where, when, and why. Same thing. Here it is. Here's what we're doing. Here's the why. But everything you're doing has a purpose and matters. Right. So the short answer is, it's about communicating the why and giving people the information that they need to be able to support change.
[00:50:03] Speaker B: But how do you take care of yourself during that?
[00:50:06] Speaker A: Me?
Okay, I guess I still just try to use the tools that you have taught me around. Right. Which is think about the four buckets. Right. And everything associated with your family, your work, what's balanced, your personal strengths as well. I'm getting them all wrong right now because I'm on the spot, but. Right, like, make sure you eat well, make sure you sleep well. I'mixing the two things together, but there's the eating well, sleeping well. Right. The legs of the stool. That's it. But the four legs of the stool, make sure you at least got three of them right. So I think it's that. It's realizing when you have to shut off, you shut off, you can work for forever, and it's all still going to be there. Taking multiple long weekends, that has been essential for me. Right. Shutting off as needed, things like that.
[00:50:59] Speaker B: The reason I ask is when someone has worked in a really great culture and has helped develop a really great culture and are a wonderful leader and have a great team, and if you have to do anything for all sorts of reasons, and not always a bad economic reason, but for whatever reason, there's restructuring, there is a level of emotional labor that comes for all leaders, and it can be different for everyone.
And in a time of change, you really have to make changes that work for a business, because this is a very mission focused business, while also being a decent person and not being brisk with people and all those things. That's a lot to manage when you're also leading, like, a global organization.
[00:51:45] Speaker A: It is a lot. When things are good, it's a lot. Then you add in tough decisions or tough challenges. It's a lot.
[00:51:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
So, with that, I want to go back to a part of our conversation that we kind of glossed over. I didn't want to do too big of a deep dive into this one section. But also I didn't want to leave the iterative work. I don't want to act like that doesn't matter because we focus on innovation, which is always kind of fun and exciting to talk about. But what about iterative work? So if you're leading an engineering team, is there a constant idea of focus on iterating on a product or is it just kind of like goes and waves?
[00:52:28] Speaker A: I would say once again, it depends, right? So we've had product families where we have iterated and iterated and iterated and it was conscious and intentional. Right? So we have a product called Lutonix. It's an incredible drug coated balloon. It came to market and then literally almost every year we were rolling something new out, right? So the next year it was an additional few sizes and then the next year it was a lower profile and then the next year it was for another disease state and it was like six or seven years in a row where you just always had something new and something new to talk about. There is a lot of value to be driven by that approach, I think, because you just always give yourselves for something fresh to be able to go back and say, hey doc, remember how you said you wanted the size? Well, I got it for you now. Right? Or hey doc, remember how you said that you would love it, that if it was a lower profile, I have it for you now. Right? Drove a lot of growth with that product line, just always having something fresh to speak about. So we definitely, on certain products do. Now, there's a downside to that approach too, and that you're spending a lot of extra money versus what's that added cost over six years versus maybe trying to get 90% of it up front. And so then no one can even come in, you just steal all the shelf space. You're like, we got it all, stay off. Right. So I think it's important to be doing both. Certain products need constant iteration. Other products, maybe the strategy is better just to say we're going to come in once and we're going to take over and it's going to take a long time for someone else to catch up with us. Right?
Yeah.
[00:54:01] Speaker B: I like hearing you talk like this because there is a part of almost every business person, no matter what level they're at, no matter where they're at, there's almost every person in business is like a competitive side. And some people don't recognize that in themselves. Other people totally recognize in themselves. So from a competitive perspective, how competitive do you feel you are?
[00:54:26] Speaker A: I'm very competitive. I know I'm very competitive. And if I said I wasn't, my team would tell me that I was, like, stupid and had no self awareness.
So, yes, very competitive. Very competitive. Yes, very much so.
[00:54:38] Speaker B: How does that show up in your leadership and the way that you do your job?
[00:54:42] Speaker A: I think probably in question asking, right, like, how can we do this better? How can we be faster? How are we going to beat our competitors?
Why do we think this is the next best thing? Right? And I think trying to not take no for an answer. If someone says no, it's like, okay, well, why is it no? There's got to be something different or better that we can do, I'd say, in that aspect. And then when we have a team building and I do a bunch of smack talk that I'm going to beat them in Cornhole, and I suck at Cornhole, but I have to say it to make myself think I'm going to be good. Things like that, whatever it might be, I love it.
[00:55:17] Speaker B: Do you mind if we go into a bit of personal life?
[00:55:20] Speaker A: Sure, absolutely.
[00:55:21] Speaker B: All right, so you have a family, and I know family is ultra important to. You're very engaged. So with whatever you're willing to share or talk about, you really do like, you have a very vibrant family life and also a very serious professional. So how do you balance those two sides of things?
[00:55:43] Speaker A: It's a good question. I think it's definitely about setting boundaries, that's for sure. And I've been so lucky to have great bosses all along the way who I think ultimately enabled me or empowered me and let me set boundaries. So a great example was, so I have four kids. My oldest two are twins. I spent many years trying to have children. So they matter a lot, right? Not that everyone's kids don't matter a lot, but it's, like, even more personal. And with the twins, when I went out on maternity leave, I was like, there's no way I can come back to work in three months, right? I just don't think I can do it. And so I asked for an extra month and I was given it, right. So I was able to take four months instead of three months. Things like, I had an extra month. Leave of absence. I came back to work and said, look, I'm going to leave by 430 every day. I'll come in early, but my husband's going to take the kids. I'm going to pick them up. I want to pick them up every day. So just early on kind of set the boundaries to say, look, I have to shut off during this time of my life. If something's critical, I'll be here. If I need to get back online, I'll get back online later at night or when it works with my family and my family life.
And I've just tried to kind of keep building on that over the years. Right. There's times when you're not perfect and things like that, and you spend a little more time at work or vice versa, but it's, I think, trying to just do the best balance you can do.
[00:57:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
Specific to your path in the industry.
Any thoughts on increasing diversity in the field of engineering, specifically in the world that you walk in in Medtech?
[00:57:24] Speaker A: 100%. Yeah. So I'm actually super lucky within BD to represent the global inclusion council for our R and D team. So the global R and d team of all BD. And with that, I have gotten a lot of access to our diversity metrics within R D, and there is plenty of room to do, room for improvement. And it's not BD specific. I think it's engineering specific. Right. Which is more women in higher level engineering roles. Absolutely. More room for improvement within engineering, within African Americans and Hispanics within higher level engineering roles, even at the entry level roles. Right. So how do you go about recruiting that it starts early and the setting it up early for saying, how do you make STEM important for all individuals and let everyone realize, doesn't matter who you are, if you like solving problems, STEM is a great place to go. And then just supporting that through the years, through engineering, through schooling and access, and then, of course, hiring and ongoing succession planning within an organization as well.
[00:58:29] Speaker B: So being part of such a huge organization and then being able to have eyes on those metrics. And, of course, I agree with you, it's an industry wide opportunity for growth and change. How do you ship the size of BD in that and make a real impact? I know there's a ton of work going on and very good work, but from your perspective of what you see, what are the opportunities?
[00:58:59] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think, once again, it's all about the data. You got to look at your data and see where you stand today, see where your gaps are, and then target some programs to address the gaps. Right. So within BD, one of our areas of improvement within R and B is females in leadership roles. We actually see a decline of women leaders as they get past a certain level. And the question is why? What's going on? What's causing that? Right. And so we took a focused effort had a team go out, literally interview 300 women across BD within engineering, at all levels of the organization, and say, women like me who are in the higher level, saying, how did I get here? And what did I face over time and whatever, and then women in junior level roles or people who haven't, why, et cetera, what barriers do they see? And we collated the data, and what the data said is, look, it's all the same global factors that do it, right? I mean, you read lean in, it's pretty much that in a book, right? Those are it. We hold ourselves back. We don't self advocate, and it's not all on us.
It's multifat, the good old boys club, right? That's perceived various things. So then the question is, what do you do to get after it, right? And step one to me is raise awareness with this data.
When it was pulled together, I actually shared it with Kevin Boyle because I was like, this is so obvious. I'm reading this and I'm like, this is my life on a page. Why is this not surprising, right? Like, all the tidbits and everyone was like, we should share it. And I'm like, isn't this known? And so I called Kevin. I'm like, I want to walk you through something, and I want you to tell me what you think. So I walk him through this, and he was like, jaw dropped. No idea.
Some of it, maybe most of it. He was like, I'm like, is this new to you? He's like, yeah. I'm like, really? And he's like, yeah, I had no idea. 80% of this, right? So as an example, that to me was when I'm like, really? This person I've worked with for ten years, if it's that obvious to me and not to him, then this is proof that awareness is probably step one, right? And then it allows us to start people to realize, wait a second. I didn't think about it from that perspective. Hey, am I considering a female for promotion because she's not advocating for herself versus her male counterpart, who's just prone to advocate for himself? Right. Have I really dug into thing things of as basic as that?
[01:01:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Anyway, and as a sidebar, shout out to Kevin Boyle, friend of the show, amazing person. Kevin, salute you.
But let's focus on that piece when you're like, oh, my gosh, this is like the story of my career.
This is me. I've experienced these things. Yet you're at a very senior level, and you've done a lot of really big stuff. So how did you work your way through some of those challenges as an example, like advocating for yourself, any of these things?
[01:01:55] Speaker A: Good question. So I would say one example, I think what many women, not all women do. Not all people. Men too. Right? But for sure, I think prone more towards women. We self project years in advance and think, okay, well, I want to have a kid and then I want to have more kids, and then how am I going to do it? And I don't know how I'm going to get there. So then you say no, instead of just leaning in and saying yes. Right? Like, give it a shot. And I absolutely did that. I had my previous leader who many years ago had reached out and was like, hey, I'm considering you for this job. And I spent minutes of Ram telling him all the reasons why I shouldn't have the job. 30 minutes I left, and the time, I didn't even think about it. I was like, no and no. And I have three kids and I have this young one at home, and how am I going to do this and how am I going to do that? And I haven't done this yet. And I haven't done that yet. And literally he was trying to convince me that I could do it, and I was convincing him that I couldn't, right?
But I didn't know it at the time until years later where I could look back and be like, holy cow, I'm lucky to have this job because I talked myself out of it however many years earlier, right? And I don't know what switched. I know it's crazy. Sometimes I think the more you take on, the more you realize you're capable of doing. And so for me, at that moment, I was pretty overwhelmed because I had, like, two year old twins and a newborn. But by the time I had my fourth child, I was like, if I can do this, I can do that. Right? And it was more like the reality of like, oh, yeah, I'm not concerned anymore. I don't know. It's like something that just clicked. That's one example.
[01:03:29] Speaker B: Well, I love that example because it's a combination from what I'm hearing from you. It's like cultural awareness, like making sure that this is like, people within the business culture are super aware of what some of the challenges for any population moving ahead are. So awareness is a big part of it, but also, like, strong leadership where you could have a boss be like, listen, no, you literally can do this. If you're telling me you don't want to, that's one thing. But if you're telling me you can't do it, let's have that conversation. And being willing to see the difference between those two things. And the third is that self awareness piece and knowing what your traps are and then pushing through. So if three things came together, like cultural awareness, leadership awareness, and then self awareness, that that might help address some of these challenges that are within industry, that are holding back certain groups.
[01:04:18] Speaker A: Absolutely.
I think also, personally, for me, heavy on the. I've had so many great leaders, like the one person in that one project, and he was like, no, you're doing it. I didn't get the choice. Right. They're like, look, I think if I would have fought back strong, I, of course, would have had a voice. But just having people see someone's potential and I try to keep my. For similar reasons, like, I've had so many people see my potential, so it's trying to see all of my team's potential and being like, you can do this. Go. You got it. I'm giving you this assignment, and you're going to be great. I have no doubt. Go. Run. Right.
[01:04:53] Speaker B: All right, as we're coming to the close of the interview, we're going to enter into what we call the crucial three.
[01:04:58] Speaker A: Okay.
[01:04:59] Speaker B: The crucial three are three difficult questions that scale up in difficulty from question to question. Okay, before we get to that, anything that you want to share, anything that you want to talk about, any ideas you want to put out there or any.
[01:05:15] Speaker A: It's been. This has been fun. Ram, thanks for the opportunity.
[01:05:19] Speaker B: Of course. All right, you ready to go?
[01:05:21] Speaker A: I'm ready.
[01:05:23] Speaker B: All right, so for this first question, I want you to think of any point in your career ever, what's one piece of feedback that you have gotten in your career that you have worked on and been successful at changing? So not that you're still working on it, that you got the feedback, you worked on it, and you've completely changed it.
[01:05:44] Speaker A: I've gotten a lot of feedback in my career, Ram, so this is going to sound probably minor, but I had my not current boss. Previous boss. I actually say he gave the most feedback in a great way. Right?
Good and bad. Sometimes feedback is difficult, but it's so important. And he taught me the gift of feedback.
One day he comes in my office, and he just sits down. He's like, today a good day for feedback? I said, yes. He's like, okay. You say, you know what I mean? Way too often. And so I was like, oh. It was like a clear blind spot of just a saying that, I would say all the time in conversation, and as soon as he said it, I would catch myself saying it all the time. So have I completely perfected it? No, I've probably said it four times today in the.
But I've really tried hard to at least even just bringing the awareness to that statement.
And as small as that is, it actually was pretty impactful to make you think about how you're communicating, what you're communicating and why am I saying that? Like, really thinking about why I use that random catchphrase. Right, so I'll use that one.
I love that basic.
[01:07:07] Speaker B: Can I share something about myself?
[01:07:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:07:10] Speaker B: So what we're talking about is, like, filler sounds, words or phrases. So a sound being, like, a word being, like. Or a phrase being.
What was the one that you just used?
[01:07:25] Speaker A: You know what I mean?
[01:07:26] Speaker B: You know what I mean? Okay, so mine is yeno, and my father was fluent at six languages.
Genius guy. Just totally genius guy. And the most precise speaker of any language. Well, I didn't know the other languages, so I can't speak to that. But the most precise speaker to English that I've ever known, my father is fluent at six languages. My mom at four, my sister at two, and then there's, like, me. I don't barely speak English, but my dad's precision in English was, like, unbelievable. His grammar, his writing, everything.
So one day, him and I are chatting, and my dad was, like, a pretty stoic guy. So when he said something funny, it was 8000 times funnier than someone who's always cracking jokes. So him and I are chatting, and I'm telling him a story about something that happened the night before. And as I'm speaking, I keep saying, you know, you know, you know. And at one point, he stops me and says, ram, have you ever told me this story before? And I was like, no, it literally just happened last night. And he said, then why do you keep insisting that I know? And I was like, oh, God.
And it's what made me realize how much I say, you know, and shout out to my dad. I'll never forget that one.
[01:08:48] Speaker A: That's it, right? Like, those moments, they stick well.
[01:08:53] Speaker B: And for filler stuff, filler sounds, phrases, words. Like you said, it sounds minor.
But the more that you get into situations, because there's, like, what I call three kinds of conversations. There's, like, just true conversations.
You and I have just normal conversations, and you and your team have normal conversations. There's a lot of people that you have normal conversations with where everyone has normed to each other's discussion style. So your physical presence, your verbal presence, your filler words, all of those kinds of things, that's no big deal. Then you have high value conversations. High value conversations are conversations where you want to give great value or you want to receive great value, or maybe both. We want that to be that equal exchange in those. You need to be more aware of how you're expressing yourself and saying, like, you know, every third sentence might interfere with that. But then there's high stakes conversations. High stakes interactions. High stakes interactions are when there's something to win or something to lose. And it really matters how much filler you use because that can distract or even diminish your message.
[01:09:57] Speaker A: I believe it, and I see even now you can actually see when other individuals, you pick up on it more. Since I got that feedback, I probably didn't pick up on other individuals. Like key phrases, right? They're filler words. And ever since then, especially in high stake moments, you can feel it, right. It becomes very aware. Probably not to them, though, right?
[01:10:22] Speaker B: Totally.
And that's why that's such a great thing that you pointed out. It sounds minor, but it's actually totally major. And it's a huge gift for how someone to point that out.
[01:10:31] Speaker A: Definitely.
[01:10:33] Speaker B: Right. You ready for question two?
[01:10:35] Speaker A: Question two.
[01:10:36] Speaker B: Okay, spicy one. All right. I want you to think of one thing that you have gotten feedback on or have become self aware of without getting feedback, but one thing that you're working on but you have yet to.
[01:10:53] Speaker A: Conquer, I would say my speed of communication.
I am working on it. Absolutely. I can be a very fast talker, as probably observed in this podcast. And especially if I'm nervous or if it's something I really am passionate about, I can talk very fast, and to me it's not fast, but to others. And when I hear myself after the fact, it's very fast. So that is absolutely something I'm still working on. And see, I'm trying to slow down in my communication at the moment.
And also in pausing when I'm presenting, it's actually someone on your team who walked me through and said, if I can, sean. And my funny story of recent is I was presenting, I don't know if I told you this at a conference, and Sean said, steph, pause. Like, here's where you need to pause. Let it hang for a moment. And I'm presenting and I look in the audience of this room and I swear Sean was in the audience and I see someone and I'm like, sean's there. Pause, Steph, pause.
So that is something I'm absolutely not perfected, and I'm definitely working on for sure.
[01:12:12] Speaker B: Yep. Sean's got some astral projection going on.
[01:12:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it wasn't sean, obviously, but I saw someone that was, like, his doppelganger, and it worked. I was like.
[01:12:24] Speaker B: And huge shout out to Landy. Sean. Landy, you're the best. Totally love working with you, man.
You ready for your third question? I don't know if I should make this a third question or a sub question. Okay, what do you think, Monica, third question or sub question?
Third question. Okay, here it goes. This might be easy. This might be hard. Okay, so there's no number two. There's no plan B. What is your all time complete favorite thanksgiving dish?
[01:12:59] Speaker A: One. I have to pick one?
That is a really hard question.
Oh, my gosh.
But what if it goes together? Right? Like, there's a dish that has two components to it.
[01:13:16] Speaker B: Okay, hold on a second. I have a request for a. What if it's a dish that has two components and they go together? They're symbiotic.
As long as it's a side dish. Is it only a side dish that we're talking about?
[01:13:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:13:34] Speaker B: Okay. Gravy to a mashed potato. Like a gravy to a mashed potato or a gravy to a roast or whatever. Or gravy to a roast. Yes. You've got the green light.
[01:13:45] Speaker A: Yes. Good. Because it is my mother's homemade dressing. This is not stuffing. It is not stuffed in the turkey. It is cornbread dressing. That is a southern dish. But it is also only acceptable to be eaten with her homemade gravy that is made with a roux. My mother's from Louisiana. Right. It has the holy trinity in it. And you put the two together, and that is it. But you can't have just the gravy, and you can't have just the dressing. You have to have the two. My. That's my one. That's my one. Is.
[01:14:16] Speaker B: That is an amazing answer. Well done.
[01:14:18] Speaker A: Thank you. It's very good.
[01:14:20] Speaker B: All right, well, listen, we've done it. We've talked about doing this forever. We're finally here. We've had our conversation.
You blew my mind. You did so, like, gave so much stuff to think about. Anything that you want to share with the audience in general or any audience specific things that you want to share as we're closing off, I will just share that.
[01:14:40] Speaker A: Aram, you're an awesome person. Your company is an awesome company. They've done oodles for me and my team. So thank you.
[01:14:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And thank you. Thank you for all that you do, all that your team does, all that BD does. Real difference makers. And again, being in that hospital room with a loved one and seeing BD stuff, I was like, even though I'm not part of BD, I felt this huge sense of pride. I was like, damn, you do such cool, important work. Thanks for everything you do. And again, it's just so awesome to spend this time together. So with that, everybody, we'll see you next time on one step beyond one step.
[01:15:23] Speaker A: One step.
You.
[01:15:28] Speaker B: What that? Beyond.
