Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hey everyone, welcome to the episode. So ask a Ram flips the script one step beyond podcast. Guests and listeners submit their questions and ask a Ram anything. Questions can be music, life stories, business, leadership, advice, how to make the best vegan omelet, you name it. A Ram will unpack your questions and leave you with info you can apply way before we get to it. Please rate, review and subscribe. How do you know when to pivot and when to stay the course?
[00:00:33] Speaker B: If the effort to stay the course is more than the worth of the.
[00:00:37] Speaker C: Result, then you pivot.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: If the effort of staying the course.
[00:00:40] Speaker C: Is worth the result, then you stay on it. There are some things that the result.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: Is going to be so worthwhile that.
[00:00:46] Speaker C: You'Re going to put in that extra work.
[00:00:48] Speaker B: There are other things where the result is really low or not there, and.
[00:00:53] Speaker C: Then you got to pivot.
[00:00:54] Speaker B: I just give you an example. If you're working somewhere and your work life balance isn't great, you're not getting paid well. Maybe you don't have great benefits or.
[00:01:04] Speaker C: Anything, but the experience that you're having.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: Is portable and it's going to get you that next job or that next.
[00:01:10] Speaker C: Opportunity or that next position, then you stay the course.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: If you're working in the exact same situation, but the experience that you're getting isn't going to do that. It isn't going to help you in the future, or it's like, not apparent.
[00:01:22] Speaker C: That it's going to, then you pivot.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: So I worked at this job where I got paid very well. So the financial part of it was there.
[00:01:28] Speaker C: I had to bust my ass to do it, but I got paid really well.
And the experience that I got from.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: That is literally what set me up to do cadence.
[00:01:37] Speaker C: So the money was good and it set me up to do cadence. The work culture was horrendous. The leadership was terrible. The work life balance was awful, and there were no benefits. There was like no kind of health benefits or anything like that.
[00:01:52] Speaker B: I stayed the course, though, and I stayed the course because I knew it's what was going to set me up. And I was there for five and a half years, so it wasn't like a sprint.
[00:01:59] Speaker C: It was a long term thing to me. The outcome was so worth it. It doesn't mean that when I was.
[00:02:06] Speaker B: Doing it, I wasn't like, I got to get out of here.
[00:02:08] Speaker C: I got to quit.
[00:02:08] Speaker B: I got to pivot, I got to go into the next thing.
[00:02:10] Speaker C: Of course, I had that thinking all the time, but I had to be set on that bigger thing.
[00:02:15] Speaker B: It's really a values based judgment. For some people.
[00:02:18] Speaker C: Those other things matter more.
[00:02:20] Speaker B: Nothing wrong with that. My encouragement though is what's the outcome.
[00:02:24] Speaker C: Of staying and seeing it through versus.
[00:02:27] Speaker B: What'S the outcome of pivoting and what that might open up.
[00:02:30] Speaker C: And it's really values based and opportunity based.
[00:02:33] Speaker A: I'm 40 and I've been in the trades my whole working career. I got licensed and have had moderate success in my field, but I've never felt like this is where I want to be. I know I'm getting to a point of do or don't for career change, but I feel lost most days. I'm great at what I do in the trades, but my heart isn't here. How do I choose what field I'd like to operate in? Using my strengths?
[00:02:56] Speaker C: Volunteer at something or do something as a passion project?
[00:03:03] Speaker B: So that experience that you're talking about is super common and not just for people in the trades. It could be people in the corporate sector. It's just that thing that you get.
[00:03:13] Speaker C: Into, but you don't really think it's your thing.
[00:03:16] Speaker B: However, it's also how you make money, how you make a living, all of.
[00:03:19] Speaker C: That kind of stuff. So how do I figure out that other thing?
[00:03:21] Speaker B: Well, it's certainly not the time to just go and be like, I'm just going to do this thing and quit your job and take some kind of leap. I mean, it could be like that.
[00:03:29] Speaker C: But that's more of tv show like fictional blog writing.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: In real life, if you want to do that, you can volunteer at a bunch of stuff, volunteer at all sorts of things that involve real deal work. Like you can volunteer for a board where you could get some more of.
[00:03:46] Speaker C: Actually how to run a business type of perspective.
[00:03:49] Speaker B: You could volunteer in all sorts of different settings that would give you a lot of different kinds of experience.
[00:03:53] Speaker C: And if not, you could also just.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: Start a side project, passion project, anything like that that maybe you're not going to draw revenue from, but it's going to give you different kinds of experiences. And that's the thing where I'd say as we get a little bit older, it's not like community college where you're.
[00:04:07] Speaker C: Like, I'm just going to take a bunch of courses and see what I like.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: If you want to do a career.
[00:04:12] Speaker C: Switch and you're serious about it and.
[00:04:14] Speaker B: You'Re a little bit later, career or mid career, then you have to get some practical experience of trying things. And that is for me, either volunteering or starting a passion project on the.
[00:04:23] Speaker C: Side with no anticipation.
[00:04:25] Speaker B: It will become a substitute for your.
[00:04:26] Speaker C: Revenue unless it totally pops.
[00:04:28] Speaker A: My boss usually sends me vague requests that leave me guessing the details, and this really stresses me out. What can I do to help make our working relationship better?
[00:04:37] Speaker C: If your boss is cool and can take feedback, give your boss the feedback.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: If your boss is not cool and.
[00:04:44] Speaker C: Can'T take the feedback, get into a.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: Practice of pulling the thread and asking good questions.
[00:04:51] Speaker C: So this is what I mean by that.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: A lot of people give vague requests, like, totally vague requests, and it doesn't.
[00:04:56] Speaker C: Come from any bad place at all.
[00:04:59] Speaker B: They just need to get the feedback. And just getting the feedback is often not enough because people fall into their.
[00:05:04] Speaker C: Preference and their habits and all that.
[00:05:06] Speaker B: But if your boss is cool and can take the feedback, give them the.
[00:05:09] Speaker C: Feedback and show them an example of the request that they've made for you.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: And then show them also an example.
[00:05:16] Speaker C: Of what would have helped you in that place. So it's like, here's the feedback.
[00:05:20] Speaker B: Here's an example of what you gave.
[00:05:22] Speaker C: Me, and this is what it would have helped.
[00:05:24] Speaker B: If your boss is cool, they'll be.
[00:05:25] Speaker C: Like, hell yeah, that's awesome. Flip it.
[00:05:27] Speaker B: If your boss is not cool, or maybe is a degree of cool, get really good at asking great questions. So we use this thing that we call the question funnel, where you start broad and then you get more specific. You ask general questions and then get.
[00:05:40] Speaker C: More and more specific.
[00:05:41] Speaker B: So if someone gives very vague responses to ask them something right off the.
[00:05:47] Speaker C: Bat that's super targeted can often, and.
[00:05:50] Speaker B: If they're a little bit defensive, can often bring out that defensiveness in them. But if you ask something that's, like.
[00:05:55] Speaker C: Broader and then work your way deeper.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: You'Re warming them into the discussion. Very often when people give a.
[00:06:04] Speaker C: Vague.
[00:06:04] Speaker B: Direction, it's either they're just not thinking about it.
[00:06:07] Speaker C: They're just kind of like, go do this thing, or they don't know what they want.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: And it can be a combination of those two things.
[00:06:14] Speaker C: So if the person you're dealing with.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: Is relatively defensive, or if you kind.
[00:06:18] Speaker C: Of have a difficult relationship, warm them.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: By doing the question funnel.
[00:06:23] Speaker C: Ask something general, like, oh, when would you like this done? And then that's like a really easy opening.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: And then you say, okay, so the way I see it is there's like three parts of this. So if you were to say you want it done by this date, is that all three parts of this, or do you want one part sooner than.
[00:06:39] Speaker C: This and this, then ask them again a deeper question. Than a deeper question.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: At the end of a funnel, you should always paraphrase or summarize.
[00:06:46] Speaker C: So if paraphrase is like the bullet.
[00:06:47] Speaker B: Points of the conversation, it's like this.
[00:06:49] Speaker C: This, and this, or a summary, which.
[00:06:51] Speaker B: Is just getting to the heart of the matter, is basically like saying, so.
[00:06:54] Speaker C: What you mean is this.
[00:06:55] Speaker B: If you get really good at using the question funnel and then ending with.
[00:06:59] Speaker C: A paraphrase or a summary, you should.
[00:07:01] Speaker B: Be able to essentially passively train your audience to get there themselves, especially if they're kind of a student of the people around them.
[00:07:09] Speaker C: But if not, then you'll be able.
[00:07:10] Speaker B: To manage that relationship super well. It is not at all uncommon for people have bosses that give really, really.
[00:07:16] Speaker C: Vague feedback or vague feedback or direction. It's super important to not get reactive.
[00:07:22] Speaker B: To that and be like, oh, my boss sucks. Or doing them on purpose, but instead just get very practical. Either this person can take the feedback.
[00:07:28] Speaker C: I can give it to them, and then give them some examples, or they're.
[00:07:31] Speaker B: Defensive, or we have a challenged relationship.
[00:07:33] Speaker C: So I'll get really good with the question funnel.
[00:07:36] Speaker A: How can I get better at asking technical questions at work? I'm a business analyst, but I often find it hard to articulate my questions or to make them clear.
[00:07:44] Speaker C: I am a huge fan of analogies.
[00:07:49] Speaker B: And you should use analogies to help.
[00:07:50] Speaker C: Frame up people's thinking. I'm going to give you an example.
[00:07:55] Speaker B: So, my background is a therapist, and I use a lot of therapeutic techniques.
[00:07:59] Speaker C: To help leaders and teams work well together.
[00:08:03] Speaker B: And so I always want to understand the dynamics of how people work together.
[00:08:07] Speaker C: And when if I say to someone.
[00:08:09] Speaker B: Hey, what are the dynamics of how.
[00:08:10] Speaker C: Your team works together? And if I said that to a leader, they'd be like, which philosophy of.
[00:08:16] Speaker B: Leadership am I pulling from?
[00:08:17] Speaker C: And I don't know.
[00:08:19] Speaker B: I'm embarrassed. What do you mean by dynamics? Do we get along? It gets really complex instantly. So the way that I use an.
[00:08:25] Speaker C: Analogy I use is, does your team.
[00:08:27] Speaker B: Operate like an orchestra, or does your.
[00:08:29] Speaker C: Team operate like a rock band?
[00:08:32] Speaker B: And then, of course, they're like, what do you mean?
[00:08:34] Speaker C: So an orchestra has all of these individual parts.
[00:08:39] Speaker B: You have the woodwinds, you have the.
[00:08:40] Speaker C: Brass, you have all these different sections. And the collaboration of that team happens through the conductor. So the conductor is the one that.
[00:08:50] Speaker B: Creates that kind of collaboration.
[00:08:53] Speaker C: And it doesn't mean that all the.
[00:08:54] Speaker B: People in the orchestra and all the different parts don't like each other, don't.
[00:08:57] Speaker C: Care, or anything like that. It's that there's a focal point for how they collaborate, and it's through the conductor, and you can have an awesome.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: Conductor who's really good, and you can have a tilly shitty conductor. But the idea is that the collaboration, how people work together, is through the focal point of a single touch point. And so the collaboration is by nature.
[00:09:16] Speaker C: Inorganic, because it's being created by one person.
[00:09:20] Speaker B: So there's just not a lot of.
[00:09:21] Speaker C: Organic moments of collaboration, and it has to do with how good that leader is. Flip it. If you're a band, there's tons of collaboration, tons of organic collaboration, because you're.
[00:09:31] Speaker B: Living in a van together, you're writing music together, you're all kind of opinions on art and all of those things in that space. It doesn't mean they collaborate well together. There's bands that hate each other and are super toxic, and there's bands that totally get along. There's bands that hate each other and super toxic, like Oasis, but are like.
[00:09:47] Speaker C: The best band ever.
[00:09:48] Speaker B: And there's bands where everybody gets along and is super wonderful and collaborates, but their band sucks. So it has a lot to do.
[00:09:54] Speaker C: With not just how people work together, but how good all the parts are.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: So I use stuff like that to frame up things that, for me, are, like, ultra technical, but are super easy to understand. But when you use an analogy, you just need to be able to explain it in practical terms, like I just did.
[00:10:10] Speaker A: I sometimes struggle with shyness in meetings. What steps can I take to ensure I still make valuable contributions and share my perspectives effectively?
[00:10:19] Speaker B: Know when it matters, to share your.
[00:10:21] Speaker C: Opinion and when it doesn't.
So there's three kinds of interactions, and.
[00:10:26] Speaker B: These could be one on one interactions, these could be group interactions, they could be presentations, they could be emails. It's like any communication.
[00:10:33] Speaker C: There's three kinds.
[00:10:34] Speaker B: There's normal ones, there's high value ones.
[00:10:36] Speaker C: And there's high stakes ones. So in normal interactions with one person.
[00:10:42] Speaker B: Or multiple people, whatever the audience is.
[00:10:44] Speaker C: Everyone'S normed to their style.
[00:10:46] Speaker B: So someone who is a little bit.
[00:10:47] Speaker C: Shyer, your audience is normed to it, no big deal, they're fine with it.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: Things that are high value are opportunities where either you want to get great value out of the interaction you're having.
[00:10:57] Speaker C: Or you want to give great value.
[00:10:59] Speaker B: And it can still be with people you interact with all the time. It's just that what you're talking about is more important, or what you're working.
[00:11:05] Speaker C: About is more important.
[00:11:06] Speaker B: But high value ones can also be with, like, cross functional partners. It could be with clients it could be with people you have less access.
[00:11:12] Speaker C: To, like maybe senior leaders.
[00:11:14] Speaker B: In those moments, it's about really picking.
[00:11:17] Speaker C: What are the high value moments for me? And I'll get back to how to do that in a second. But pick those high value moments and.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: Then the last are high stakes. High stakes are real simple. There's something to win or something to lose as a result of the communication.
[00:11:31] Speaker C: And in those points, it's about being super tucked in.
[00:11:34] Speaker B: So what I'd suggest is if you.
[00:11:36] Speaker C: Want to expand your influence or kind.
[00:11:39] Speaker B: Of get known a little bit better in an organization, or you want to let people know that you care and.
[00:11:43] Speaker C: You'Re interested, don't worry about just the normal moments. Just be yourself, enjoy life.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: Don't have that level of nervousness.
[00:11:51] Speaker C: I've got to say this thing right now.
[00:11:53] Speaker B: Instead, what I'd say is, where are the moments where it's be actually valuable.
[00:11:57] Speaker C: For me or for other people to hear my opinion.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: Know exactly where those moments are and prepare how you want to speak. So think about if you were asked a question, how you would respond. Use the answer pyramid.
[00:12:08] Speaker C: If you don't know about the answer.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: Pyramid, go check out our channel.
[00:12:11] Speaker C: We've got stuff on there about it. So pretend in your head almost like.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: You'Ve been asked like, what are top ten top questions that I could be asked about a high value subject? Then just write out your answers and then use those. Filter those into conversations as if you've.
[00:12:24] Speaker C: Been asked the question in a high stakes moment, though, it's really about being tucked in.
[00:12:28] Speaker B: Know exactly what your answer is, exactly what your explanation is and how you.
[00:12:32] Speaker C: Would speak about it.
[00:12:33] Speaker B: I'd also encourage people, if you've got a level of shyness, you should get really used to taping yourself. If you do that, you're going to.
[00:12:39] Speaker C: Know in the moment not just what.
[00:12:41] Speaker B: You'Re talking about, so the content you're using, but how you're going to sound and how you're going to come across physically and verbally. It's really important to get a good sense of that for every professional, but especially if you've got some level of.
[00:12:50] Speaker C: Shyness, that when you're speaking, you're juggling.
[00:12:54] Speaker B: Three things at any time. What you're saying.
[00:12:56] Speaker C: So your content, how you're supporting, what you're saying with your physical and verbal presence and your ability to read the room. So empathy, so that you're paying attention.
[00:13:08] Speaker B: So you can adjust either your content to your physical or verbal presence. So if you're shy, have your content out of the way. Know what your content is, know where those important high value moments are or high stakes moments are.
[00:13:18] Speaker C: And prep in advance.
[00:13:19] Speaker B: But also tape yourself. Like get real used to videotaping yourself so you know your physical and verbal presence is always locked in. Because that way you know what you're.
[00:13:26] Speaker C: Saying, you know how you're coming across.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: And it allows you to use your.
[00:13:29] Speaker C: Empathy to read the room and pivot.
[00:13:31] Speaker A: I'm an introvert and find it challenging to speak up in large meetings. I like to contribute more, but I get in my head and usually end up saying nothing. Do you have any advice on what I can do to participate more in meetings?
[00:13:45] Speaker C: Participating in big meetings is overvalued.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: So what I'd suggest is if the.
[00:13:52] Speaker C: Big meeting situation doesn't feel good, do.
[00:13:56] Speaker B: All your influencing between meetings? Big meetings, totally. Of course they matter.
[00:13:59] Speaker C: But I think it's this kind of.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Overvalued idea that everyone has to show up at meetings and have their say and have their space. I think most people have been in meetings where it's like, I wish less people were talking, I wish less people.
[00:14:15] Speaker C: Were taking up time. And everyone feels they have to throw in their two cent for people who are introverted.
[00:14:21] Speaker B: First of all, being introverted, there's nothing wrong with it.
[00:14:24] Speaker C: And it kind of bugs me that.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Things like introversion or shyness or people having their emotions closer to the surface.
[00:14:31] Speaker C: These have been viewed as being these terrible things.
People who are usually introverted are usually really strong studies of the room.
[00:14:39] Speaker B: They could kind of see what's going on. They spend a lot of time observing others. That's awesome. You get all sorts of data. Worry less about taking up time in the meeting, and focus more on influencing and having conversations in between meetings.
[00:14:54] Speaker C: So it's what I like to call the meeting before the meeting.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: If there's a meeting where there's an.
[00:14:58] Speaker C: Important decision coming up, or you think.
[00:15:00] Speaker B: That there's information that needs to be.
[00:15:01] Speaker C: In there, spend your time talking to.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: The people who are the decision makers, who are the influencers in the room. Spend your time getting your ideas out.
[00:15:10] Speaker C: There so that people are already warm.
[00:15:12] Speaker B: To those ideas and they themselves might.
[00:15:13] Speaker C: Being like, oh, actually, here's something we should consider.
[00:15:16] Speaker B: And this was brought up by so and so. And then you can choose to take.
[00:15:19] Speaker C: That moment or not take that moment.
[00:15:21] Speaker B: So focus less on the big meetings and trying to make yourself get used to this uncomfortable thing and focus more on the meeting between the meetings and really taking those moments to build connection.
[00:15:32] Speaker C: Build relationships and get your ideas out there.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: We want to hear from you, our audience. To submit your questions, send us a message. Drop us a DM or a comment on our social channels.
