Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Anyone who's listened to this podcast knows how much I love the story of the entrepreneur. Someone who just bets on themselves and goes for it. And it's especially important to me when it comes to things having to do with veganism, specifically creating alternatives for people. And this story is one that I just find ultra inspiring. Before we get to it, please subscribe to the podcast. You know, it's a, it's a huge help if you do that and share it, especially for this one because I think it's a really important message to get out. So with that, this is one step beyond.
Welcome to the show.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
[00:00:54] Speaker A: Heck yeah. So for the uninitiated, for those who don't know who. Who are you and what do you do?
[00:01:00] Speaker B: My name is Felicia Hansen and I'm the owner of a sweet Hazeln Co.
We are a cafe and a bakery. And then I'm also the owner of Break Free Candy and we create vegan copycat candy bars.
The classics, we've recreated them.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: Heck yeah. And where is all this located?
[00:01:24] Speaker B: We're in Salt Lake City, Utah.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: Is Salt Lake City known as a hotspot for veganism?
[00:01:32] Speaker B: I think we've actually won a couple like the.
When they do the population to how many vegan restaurants we've been like, I don't know, we were number 13 once or something. But I feel like we don't have.
[00:01:46] Speaker A: A lot listen, the places that we, you know. So Monica has family out there, which you and I have discussed and I go there for work relatively often and we were blown away by how much stuff is there.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: Maybe I'm just used to it all.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: I think so. I mean it's like Vancouver where we live has definitely got some like great stuff for sure. But I mean the quality of stuff that you. That is out there is like unreal. Including of course your stuff, which is why we're talking.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:02:18] Speaker A: I just want to give everyone background. So Monica and I were in Salt Lake City and I was at work and Monica's like, hey, I'm going to actually the day before we'd gotten some of your chocolate bars, some break free candy from like whatever place we'd ordered from. They just had it as an option in there and we got it. We're like, damn, these are great. Like, these are amazing. And Monica's like, hey, I'm going to order some tomorrow directly from them. And by mistake she ordered like boxes of it. So we got like multiple boxes of each chocolate bar and I came back after work and she was like, is this a. Is this like a. A bad problem or a good problem? I was like, oh, this is a good problem.
We ate so many of those bars. And then we ate. We brought them home. And then, of course, all our friends who were vegan, they were having them. They're like, this is amazing. And then we hit on two things. The first is, you don't ship to Canada, which is, like, heartbreaking.
But the second is we. We found out about your story, which was like, oh, we got to have this person on the podcast. So with that, how did this all start for you?
[00:03:25] Speaker B: Well, you know, I.
I had a great sous chef job, and I was.
I had a. Restaurants are hard work, and so I had. This job was, like, golden. Not too hard enough. You know, challenges, but calmness. It was a. It was a great spot. Well, I actually was.
I was doing the keto diet. Keto diet is all meat, eggs, cream cheese. That's it. That was baking some keto treats from my house and selling them on the side. Because I just. I always like to have a side hustle. This is what I like to do. And my wife's friend asked me if I was interested in making a vegan cake. And I was like, of course I am. I'm always up for a challenge. So we got it, exchanged phone numbers, and I called her, and she's like, you know, we use really weird things, like aquafaba. And I was like, what is aquafaba? Right? You have no idea.
Maybe a lot of the listeners don't even know.
So it's the juice from chickpeas, or you can use any kind of beans.
So I. You know, I started doing research, and I was like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna make this vegan cake. And I made this cake, and I sent it to her, and she's like, this is the best cake I've ever had. And so we became friends, you know, talking back and forth. And she shared a video on Facebook one day about animal agriculture. And I had no idea what was going on. And it was six in the morning, and I remember watching this video, and my heart was breaking, like, what is. What is this? What is going on? And then also, I don't want to be any part of this.
So that. That second, that minute, I went vegetarian. And I think two days later, I found out it was about dairy farming. And so I just went vegan in a matter of about three days. I just. I was like, I don't want to be a part of this. I don't want to. I had no idea what was going on in the world. I just. I can't. My heart was breaking. I saw these images over and over. So I reached out to everybody that I was making keto treats for, and I said, I can't do it. I can't. I can't keep buying all this. These eggs and cream and butter and just knowing what's happening. So I just. I totally jumped the wagon and went vegan and stopped making keto treats and decided to start making vegan treats.
And I. You know, I was making things here and there, and then I decided one day to make a vegan Snickers, and the vegan community went wild. And so I started selling candy bars out of the back of my trunk during the pandemic.
And we would meet up, and sometimes there would be 20 people in line for these candy bars. It got us through the pandemic and let us give, get, have something to look forward to every week, right? So I can buy 12 candy bars, and I can eat one and a quarter a day until the next meetup.
And I was. I thought someone was going to call the cops on me because we would. You know, you had to be 6ft apart. Like, so everyone was standing 6ft apart waiting for their candy bars.
And.
And then. So I still had my good. My nice sous chef job, and I was making candy bars out of my house.
And I have cats. We have six cats. So anytime I would cook, I would always clean, you know, and, you know, clean the house really good and everything, but things happen. Hair happens.
And I made a pie for somebody, and she messaged me, and she's like, I just want to let you know I found a hair in my pie. And I was like, was it a human hair or animal hair?
She's like, it was. The animal hair was like. So that gave me the.
The boost to go get a commercial kitchen so I could, you know, make these treats out of the commercial kitchen. And I found a shared kitchen, and I go in to meet the guy, and the guy's like, how much time do you need? And I said, well, I need availability anytime I want to be able to come and go. I have another job. I don't know if I'll ever quit that job because it's so nice and easy and not easy, but, you know, a good. A good position.
And. And so he says, okay, full time is $1000 a month. My wife looks at me and she's like, you don't need full time. And I'm like yeah, I do. I don't want to be like, I can only come in at six in the morning, you know, be limited. I said, as long as I make enough money to pay that, we're fine, right? And I told the guy, I was like, yeah, I don't know if I'll ever quit my job. Well, four days later I walked into the kitchen and you know, I put my notice in at my job so I'll be here full time by the end of the month. And that was the beginning of October 2020.
And I, you know, I, I just, it was going to be busy at my, my regular job and then busy making candy and candy bars and everything in for the vegan business.
And I just said I couldn't imagine how busy it was going to be. Candy and then the restaurant and I said, I just need to choose. And I, and I chose myself. I bet on myself and I said, you know, it will either work or it won't. As long as I can make enough money to pay my bills and pay the rent here, then I'm okay.
And so that's how it started in 2020 and now I currently have six full time employees and three part time employees, a pretty big candy production. I'm downsizing the restaurant to be just an express. So I have a bakery, a market and a cafe and a candy business and that's how it all started.
[00:10:04] Speaker A: That's a great, a great, great story. So just from a business perspective, I want to get into the leadership side of it in a little bit, but from a business perspective, I know we saw a huge boom in the interest in veganism and what people are calling plant based diets and all that. It was massive, let's say 6ish years ago and there was lots of corporate money coming in and then a lot of that has seemed to slow down. So there's a lot of, there's a big push of all these vegan brands, all these vegan restaurants, even some vegan grocery stores. And only the strong survive right now. So with that, are you seeing any, any headwinds that you haven't had before?
[00:10:48] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes. And then the past month and a half it's been even more so you're right. I mean in 2020 it seemed like it was, you know, the rage, right? So almost five years ago and it seemed to slow down. I'm not sure why, I haven't really thought about it, but definitely every time I open up a social media or some somebody's closing and people that you're like, oh, they're doing great. Right. You only get to see what people post or what's on the outside. You don't know what's going on over here or how their financials are or how are mentally or you know, how they're weathering all of this. But it's, it's definitely declined and that's why I'm, I'm doing a shift in. I had a really big restaurant, you know, you were there but it's only busy on the weekends and for a couple hours. So it, so instead of like saying, well I'm just not going to do this anymore, I decided to make a shift in how I'm doing it.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it totally wise. So what we're seeing. Monica and I travel a ton for the podcast, like a lot. We're all over the place and we're seeing all of these amazing vegan things. Like at one point it was like vegan this, vegan that everywhere. And now we're seeing the places that have like shifted with the demand and been real smart with their business plan. Those are the ones that are surviving. And of course it's gonna like, you know, it's like the huge thing I use as an example like the, like the pot industry that, I don't know, cannabis, whatever we call it.
[00:12:41] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: Like when that all went the route that it went, there was like a weed store on every corner. And then of course they all went out of business. And only the strong survive whatever the shift of the market is. And there's a lot of hype on a thing. It's like everyone's gonna try and get in and then like, you know, things are going to right size. So it feels like we're in this big like right. Sizing around like veganism and like plant based stuff. And there's a real, what I find in like a real, there's like the core people, then they're the tourists, the people who are like part of it for a while then shift out and then there's the like well wishers like you know, the family members of the vegan who are, who are supporting it. So the core audience is who we're always courting and trying to take care of.
[00:13:26] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:27] Speaker A: So with that I'm real interested in. Well first of all like you're telling us you're shifting from like having like a sit down restaurant to an express model. Can you tell us about that?
[00:13:39] Speaker B: Yeah. So I'm literally in the thick of it. We have, we're moving on the 23rd of this month. And then I'm hopeful that we'll have a sof open on the 28th. So five days closed.
So in. In the restaurant that I have right now, it's a beautiful space. I mean, I walked into that building and I was like, oh, it was made for me.
My logo is green, the booths are green. It had everything I needed, all the equipment. Beautiful. And it came with a really big price tag. But I was like, I can do this, I can do catering. I can do this, I can do that. I can make enough money to pay the bills, right?
And I did it. I've been doing it.
It's been a struggle, though, because it cost me. The location I'm in right now cost me $20,000 to open the door.
So. And when I say that number, I'm not even kidding a little bit. So that includes the lease, the power, the gas, and the water, and that's it. So it's about $90,000 a month that I have to bring in in revenue just to pay the bills. It's a lot to carry on your shoulders. So I've been doing it, but it's been hard. And last July, I was just like, I just. I can't keep struggling. Like, this is. It's. It's not fun, right? And work doesn't always have to be fun, but it' it doesn't need to be so hard that it's just.
You have no work life balance. You're stressed out. And that's where I was.
And so I asked the owner of the building, I said just to sell the building, like, I need to get out of this. I can't. $20,000 is too much. Like, this is just too much overhead.
I didn't really think about, like, where I was going to go, how hard it would be to find another space.
I. I didn't. I. I do that a lot sometimes in life. I'm like, okay, I make a choice. And then I'm like, oh, I didn't really think that through all the way.
I could admit it, though, and be like, yeah, I need to work on this.
So people started coming, looking at the building right away, and I. I was like, I'm not ready. And he's like, we'll find you another spot, you know, And.
And so I think that we had a buyer for the building end of September.
So I was starting to look for a new space to take my.
I was in the, you know, across in the road. Like, what do I do? Do I just do the candy? Do I do Candy and cakes do I do candy, cakes and just to go Sweet Hazel restaurant to go do, you know, like all of those things were in my head, like what do I do with this crossing the road.
And it was, it was a hard choice and a hard conclusion to come to. And then also I was, whenever I thought oh, I could just stop everything, I was like, but what else am I going to do with my life? I could go get a 9 to 5 job, but I probably won't be very happy.
So you know, weigh out the pros and cons and can the candy company support itself?
No, the candy company can't support itself by itself. The candy, candy and cakes couldn't support itself only because as I've grown, I've taken out loans to buy equipment to make our jobs easier, you know, and so all the back and forth and then finally I decided I'm just gonna do Sweet Hazel and company and just have it be to go instead of sit down. Because there's so much work involved. People don't realize how much work is involved in like a sit down restaurant, you know.
So that's when I decided to do the restaurant to just be like an express.
And then, and then I found my new location and we started construction.
What are we in February?
I started the construction in middle of January. But I. Well I'm having to do everything in this space. So in the restaurant I've had to put up a hood which is a piece of cooking equipment that sucks up all the steam and the hot air, walk in freezer, plumbing, electric.
So it's costing me a lot more than I ever anticipated. But it's going to be a beautiful space and I should be able to take days off and have a work home life balance, you know, so I can keep going.
[00:18:49] Speaker A: So you weren't a person that like sat like sought out being an entrepreneur before that or being a leader. You're just a person who's like in a job going along enjoying your life. Right?
[00:19:00] Speaker B: I think I've always been an entrepreneur like some way or another, you know, like I said, I like to have a little side hustle going on. I would, you know, bake cakes or do whatever. So I've always had that in me.
[00:19:15] Speaker A: When did that start for you? Like where did that come from?
[00:19:19] Speaker B: It's just always been that way. I always like to do more and learn more and be more and not on computers though.
And, and anything I can like tangible is tangible or like, you know, I don't like computer stuff. But if there's other things to learn. I just like learning and growing and doing things.
[00:19:47] Speaker A: How were you in school? Were you good at school?
[00:19:49] Speaker B: No, no, I wasn't good at school. I didn't like school very much.
I, you know, skimmed by.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: So was there anyone? Because traditionally, like, people who aren't good at school and skim by, they can kind of fall through the cracks. Or let's say people who, like, love to grow and learn and stuff, but not in the way that traditional schools, like, reward you. Like, those kinds of people can get, like, lots of messaging, like they're not smart or they're not good, or they get kind of pushed to the side. So was there anyone who saw something in you and really invested in you, or did you just kind of, like, figure it out on your own?
[00:20:28] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I just figured it out on my own.
I feel like anytime I've had ideas, my family has always been very supportive, and so there's that, but there's never been anybody. I mean, they've always supported any ideas I've had, you know?
[00:20:48] Speaker A: So what was your path then? From like, just being a young person kind of, I don't know. Like, I don't know what I'm going to do to getting into the sous chef and then eventually doing this. Like, how did you make bridge that gap from I just kind of skimmed by at school to I started this career that led me to do this.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: Thing because everywhere I go, I excel. And so it's. It just kind of like, it's always been organically. It's never been like, I'm gonna go be the boss somewhere. It just kind of happens. So people are. They just. I have a lot of love and passion. A lot. And I'm very. I'm excitable. I like to learn. And so I'm like, what are you doing over there? Why are you doing it like that? You know? And they just kind of have my hands in. So these things just, like, happen. It's never been, like.
It's never been like, oh, I'm gonna go get the head position at this place. It's just happened.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Yeah, you just made it happen. Not with intent, but just with, like, your approach. It just kind of happened.
[00:21:53] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:21:55] Speaker A: So there's good sides of that. Like, someone who's really comfortable taking a leap of faith, because most people who are comfortable taking with a leap of faith have done that throughout their lives, and they didn't even realize they were doing it. They're, like, kind of constantly betting on themselves and just learning how to get good at that. And then some people take a leap of faith, and they don't have that thing, but they've got a good business plan. Like, all that. It sounds like you're more the first, like, someone who just kind of follows their gut instincts, figures out, learns from, like, falling on their face, but learns good lessons. Oh, yeah, there's a lot of. There's a lot of good sides of that, especially, just, like, the guts to do something and maybe see around a corner that other people can't see around. What have been some of the things that weren't great about that. So, like, kind of like along that journey, figuring it out that way would have been some of those spaces where you fell flat in your face and the lessons you learned.
[00:22:41] Speaker B: Like, I should have researched that. I should have thought the process through a little more. I do a lot of that. I'm a really good jumper. And then I'm like, oh, I should have, like, planned that a little bit better. But I also feel like people get so in their head that this has to be perfect before they'll do it. Like, this isn't perfect, and this isn't perfect. And I can't do it yet. And I can't do it yet. I'm like, it's never going to be perfect. You're always going to have something that you're like, I don't like this, or, I don't like that. You know? So you just have to be like, okay, this is good enough. We're going to do it. And then the repercussions of, well, I just ordered 40,000 wrappers, and they're not exactly right, but we're going to get through them, and we're going to try to order better ones next time. Right?
So the is. Is.
It's usually the lessons of, oh, I should have thought that through a little more or taken the time to research that a little more, because I do have add, and I like to just. I. I don't have patience to be like, you need to research this. You need to do this, you need to do that. I'm like, okay, this is good enough. Let's go on to the next.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
So when I started my own. My own business, it was in, like, one of those moments where I've always been, like, a leap of faith person and just kind of, like, bet on myself, go and do these things. And it's largely worked out for me. And of course, there's been, like, total fall in your face moments. But when I started Cadence, the business That I run. It's. I've been running it for the past nine years. I've been working at another firm for a while.
I just always kind of had a sense like, I need to start my own thing. And there's a lot of stuff that's in the background. There's. But I found myself suddenly where it's like parted ways with my own. With my old company. It was pretty intense. And I was at this moment where I was like, I'm just going to start my own thing. And my parents were like, oh my God, please don't start your own business. It's going to be so crazy if you do that. And I was dating someone at the time that was like, if you do this and it fails, I'm not going to support you. I'm not going to pull you out of the. Yeah. Like out of the gutter financially. So it's like my parents are like, please don't do this. This is going to be so crazy. And the person I was dating at the time was like, if this goes belly up, I'm not supporting you. You're not going to. Like, I will not become financially responsible for you. So I was like, what do I do? Yeah, but I'd also kind of already made the decision in my gut, but I was like, what do I do? And I called someone I knew professionally who, who always been like a, like a supporter. And I said, hey, think about starting my own business. But also I'm kind of thinking maybe tucking into someone else's business for a while and just kind of like learning the ropes a bit more. Blah, blah, blah. And they said, what are you waiting for? It's crazy. Like, why would you do that? This is your moment and if you don't take it now, you're always going to have a life just filled with. I should have, I could have. And you're just going to get comfortable somewhere else. You got to ride this moment of danger. This is like a scary, dangerous moment. You gotta ride it because from there you're gonna build this thing. It's this, this woman named Jane. Great professional, been a huge. It was like one of the most, the a difference maker moment in my life where I was like getting total negative feedback from the people around me, like, don't do this. And then I had this one person who was like, this is the moment, like, ride that danger. Do that thing. Best decision I ever made professionally. And it's been, you know, like, I have like all the moments a business owner has, like fear, like Nervousness, you know, like, you. I'm like. I'm like someone who will just do something, then look back and be like, I could have done that better, or I should have done this or that. But at the end of the day, I don't know any entrepreneurs who just took a leap and, like, got it right. The first, like, got it perfectly right. Most of it's kind of like a sticky, messy, weird adventure.
[00:26:41] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:26:44] Speaker A: So with that. Although you'd always just been a person who kind of like, took these leaps of faith, and you excelled everywhere. Was this your first time when you opened up the cafe and built up this thing, was this your first time being a boss?
[00:26:58] Speaker B: No, I've been up. It's the first time I've been owner, boss. I've been the boss a lot in my life, but I've never been, like, owner, so I didn't. What is another one of those things that, like, oh, I should have thought about that a little bit. When I. When I decided to open up my own place and I'm now owner and boss, I had never been the person I'd always been the person that says, hey, this broke. We need to get this fixed. This person needs to get paid. You know, this bill needs. It was always me passing that buck. But no, now everybody is coming to me. The walk in broke. This broke. We need to do that. We ran out of this. And I'm just like. Some days I'm like, I don't want to be the boss.
But.
So, yes, the first time I've been owner, boss. No, not the first time I've been the boss. I've been the boss a lot in my life.
[00:27:59] Speaker A: So what have you learned about yourself being the owner, boss? Like, having this thing and having all these employees. What have you learned about yourself that you were delighted to find out where you're like, oh, I didn't know that about myself. And that's awesome.
[00:28:14] Speaker B: Hmm.
What didn't I know about myself?
I didn't know I could be so good at so many things.
Like, I had to learn how to be a machinist, a graphic designer, a plumber, an electrician. Boy, I know so many things now that I never thought.
I never thought I would ever need to know or learn. And now I kind of like, I've had to do so much.
I'm just like, we can figure it out.
If something breaks, I'm like, it broke, it can get fixed. If it came apart, I can put it back together, and I have to, like, self talk myself sometimes. And be like, you can do this. You can figure this out.
Just be patient. Like. But, yeah, I didn't know. I didn't know I would be able to learn so many different things.
[00:29:18] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, so what's something you've learned about yourself that you didn't like and you've had to work on actively since being both boss and owner?
[00:29:27] Speaker B: Oh, well, still. Still several things.
I need to work on my communicating and, like, how I give instructions because my brain is going million miles a minute, and then I'm talking to somebody else, and I'm asking them to do a task, and I don't give directions very clearly, and I leave and I come back and I'm like, oh, this isn't what I wanted or was expecting. But it's because they didn't give clear instructions or, you know, communicate in a way that they could understand.
So for sure, my communication is an ongoing thing that every time something happens, it's. It's usually tasks. Right? I need a task. Then I explain how my brain kind of works to somebody else, and I leave and come back, and I'm like, oh, no, this isn't right. But then I look back and I'm like, oh, I didn't. I didn't communicate that clear enough. Or, like, I think I said something and I didn't. It was just in my head. Communicating is a really big thing that I'm always.
I always want to work on it and get better, and I do better at it, and then you slip. You know, just life. It's like you mess up and you're like, oh, yeah, I'm still working on that. I'm still. I'm still trying to figure that out.
So communicating and what else?
Sometimes I just wish I'd slow down a little bit because I do go a million miles a minute. But then I'm like. But then when I do slow down, I get bored.
So it's just like a whole thing.
[00:31:15] Speaker A: Well, you also have kind of an interesting thing, because anyone who's a boss and an owner is like, like, I like what you said earlier. So before, when I was just a boss, I would just take things and be like, hey, here's a problem. Now you, owner. Go fix that. So not only are you the boss, but you're also the owner, but you're also someone who makes, like, food. And people are highly attached to food and dining experiences and all that stuff. So someone who works somewhere is, like, pretty free to criticize their boss and the owner of a company, like, pretty comfortable with that, as most employees can be, I totally get it. If you haven't been a boss, your willingness to criticize a boss is like, super high. But also, if you've never ran a restaurant or worked in a restaurant, your willingness to criticize a restaurant is like, super high as well. And be like, hey, you didn't fill up my water fast enough. So how do you manage that? Like being both the boss, the owner and restaurant, slash, like, to go stuff now, like, how do you handle that amount of, like, critique and people's willingness to give you feedback when maybe they don't really understand, like, the bigger picture?
[00:32:25] Speaker B: That's a good question. And actually, I, I, I get it. I get all of what you just said, because I used to, you know, there's this other little bakery, and when I first started, it's like, okay, what did they have? What are they doing? What are they doing right? What are they doing wrong? Blah, blah, blah, right? And I, and I, something happened and I'm like, well, why did they do that? Right? And you think that, you think that in your head. Maybe you say it out loud, but late, but late. As, as when I first started, the answer was yes. Somebody wanted something. Yes. I don't know how to do it. I'm going to figure it out. I'm going to spend five times as much as you're going to pay me to make it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to get right. The answer is yes.
And then as time goes on and you're looking at what is happening and what you're doing and cost of things and your sanity and things like that, you have to learn how to say no.
And you have to learn how to be okay with that. And you have to learn how to be like, people are going to criticize you for that. Or the people are going to say, why are you doing X, Y and Z? And you know what I've had to come to say now? Just a business decision for my sanity. Because people are going to message you. They're going to tell you, you're doing this wrong, you're doing this wrong. You should do it this way, you should do it that way. And so, and I actually have learned too, when I talk to other businesses, if I have an idea for them, I'd be like, here's just something you can or can't. You may or may not want this information. You know, just get giving it to people and letting them choose how they react or if they choose to take that advice or whatever. And so it's just how. How I deal with it is knowing that the decisions that I make may not be always right or perfect, but it's the best decisions for me and the business at that moment in time. Right.
And so it's taken me a while to be able to get there because somebody is always going to say something, you don't have enough healthy food, you don't have this. How come you're not doing that? Blah, blah, blah. And so I've just. Yeah, I just. I just tell them now. I'm just like, it was just a business decision that I had to make, you know, best for the business and best for my mental health.
[00:35:04] Speaker A: Going to that mental health side. It's an interesting time because it's like feedback before maybe would be someone giving, like a bad tip or complaining, but now somebody can blast you all over the place. So I have a friend who is a serial entrepreneur and has done quite well for himself, and he's had, like, a variety of Veeam businesses. He's actually the first person I personally knew who had done like a vegan thing. And all of this stuff was like, awesome, like, really cool. Like, smart, well done.
And one day he had this. This one venture that just like, boom, suddenly closed. And I was like, dude, what's up? Like, what happened with that? I. I didn't know you guys were having any. Any problems. And he was like, I wasn't having any problems, but basically he's like, you know, he was spread across a bunch of businesses and he'd been like. So I had. I had this one business and I wasn't spending a ton of time there. I just had. Had people that were running it and I had security camera set up and all that stuff just for real deal security.
[00:36:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:10] Speaker A: And I started noticing stuff was like, you know, like, the numbers weren't adding up and things were going missing. And he's like. So I just looked back at security tape and I found, you know, like, the staff there were stealing, and so I let him go.
And then they did one of those, like, Instagram, you know, like, this company is blah, blah, blah. And then there was like a huge reaction where people, like, the owner of this company is such a terrible person. And of course, I've just got my friend's story about it, but also it's like, I've known this person forever, like, to believe their stories, right? But it's like, not only did you find out the people were stealing from me and you had totally trusted them, but then they Flip the story, put it out online and you're getting all this like feedback and like people like start review bombing your restaurant and like saying all this stuff about you. And he was like, yeah, I just not worth it. Like I'm not going to have my mental health impacted like that. He's like, there's no way I can defend myself. These people did this end run online and people are reacting to it because they're, they're people from the vegan community. They're like, you know, they, they want just things to happen and they're upset about this place that they've always liked. So they're speaking out and it's just like, I've got no move here and rather than just try and weather it, I have other businesses, I'm just going to close this one and not deal with it. And it always stood out to me as being like this really interesting thing. When you're a vegan restaurant and you're an owner who's just some, just some person who decided to do this thing, there's like these vulnerabilities that you have because it's like you didn't go to management school. You weren't like a leader of some big corporation. You're just a person along the line who kind of figured out how to do things. You've been leading people, but now you're the owner, you've taken this leap of faith, basically anyone could say anything about you. And you also have like people who judge your restaurant and your stuff. It's like, it's a real intense place to be. So I am interested in your take on that, especially the mental health aspect.
[00:38:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I, you know, and every, every day you get a little bigger, a little better, a little stronger, a little more thick skinned. Right? Because I used to, you know, take things real personally. Like, oh, they don't, they don't like this and blah, blah, blah. And yeah, and they can, they can totally, anyone can just blast you and go on social media.
It's like, it's a lot of, I talk to myself a lot. I have a lot of conversations going on in my head and good job for that guy to just be like, nope, shut it down. I'm not even going to deal with it. Right. And you're exactly right about, you know, a lot of the vegan owners of restaurants didn't have any, any, any type of training. I did, I went to culinary school. You know, I've done some management classes. But a lot of times owners of vegan restaurants are just like I'm gonna do it because I want to help animals, I want to help the planet, I want to make good food. I want to just you know, create all these things for these people and share and love and everything. And then they shit on you because they're just like this is bad, this is bad. You're doing this wrong. And not, and not like everybody but do you know what I mean? Like everyone has their opinions but I you the more like social media is horrible.
It's good and then bad for a business owner. I need it.
It's just part of having a business. I'm not really on like social media but I'm on social media for you know, posting, posting for the business, you know, things like that.
So I'm not like on social media anymore as much as I used to be probably because I'm so busy. But I've learned like you have to kind of know like if somebody has bad things to say about you. I've, I've saw, I've read somebody. It's just like whether it's bad or good, it's still getting you exposure.
So even if it is bad years, it's still making the algorithm or whatever like pull up on more people's feed so you're going to have half good, half bad, whatever.
But it's kind of, you just kind of have to self talk.
I was, I watched Brene Brown one time and a call to Courage. Do you like Brene Brown?
[00:40:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:53] Speaker B: Anyways, she, she just said like she had, there was this. I think it's a book and a show called a Courage and, and when people are like talking about you or on the, on their Internet typing stuff, you just have to know that they probably never even done anything really hard in their life. And what we're doing as business owner is not for the weak hearted because everything that I'm going through right now, changing locations and everything, it's a lot. Any I would say 90 of people would have walked away months ago. Right. But you have to have a little bit of that craziness to keep going. To have a million things going on all at the same time and juggling it all and then just you know, you just have to be strong because I, you're always going to have people have opinions that you're never going to make everyone happy. And just being able to get to that in my head and coming to that realization and being okay with that.
[00:42:02] Speaker A: You know there's two things I want to hit on that one is you said earlier and we've been talking about the idea of like, if someone doesn't, like, let's say someone's never worked in the restaurant industry or maybe hasn't been an owner or been a boss, they might be a little bit more willing to critique, not even more willing, very willing to critique and kind of give a two star Google review, be like, this place, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They might be more in that space. Or if someone hasn't been a boss before, they might be more willing to critique. So if I pull from my own story, historically, a buddy of mine just said to me the other day, he was like, I've never known someone who hated having a boss more than you. And I was like, that is true. That's totally true. I've never liked having a boss. And so what I do now is like, you know, leadership development, help people become better leaders, build better teams.
The interesting thing, my dislike of being a boss was never based on having some deep experience and understanding of how it could, how it could be done better. It had to do from like my opinion and like my feelings about things. And so I look at my career and kind of like always bucking up against bosses and like, and not and really having this high level of critique. It was all based on opinion. Zero percent experience, zero percent. And it doesn't mean there wasn't good stuff like my background as a therapist and psychology and playing in bands and all that. I do have a good sense of how to run a business and how to lead, but my critique of bosses was often really based in just ignorance, pure ignorance. So now that I've been a business owner for a number of years, one of the funniest things is every few months for me, I'll have something happen where I'll think of one of my old bosses and be like, I now understand why they, why they acted like that. So I understand what caused their feeling to act. I don't agree with how they acted and in some cases I actually do agree with how they acted. I think of this one specific boss who's like my last boss who had like a lot of. I've, I had a lot of critique of and he was a business owner and I was really like in a lot of judgment of that guy. And now I'm like years after years of running a somewhat similar business, like quite different, but there's general similarities. I'm like, I understand this cat so much better. Oh my God. I just had something a couple of weeks ago. I was like, I totally get this dude now. Yeah, but the feelings I understand and like the situations that bring up the feelings, I totally understand his behavior. I still can't co sign. It's like I would never act like that. But like it's so interesting how from an employee standpoint, like you do have that liberty to just kind of like judge your boss and be super harsh on them, including if they're the owner of a business, even when you have no experience. And then as being an owner and a boss, you just kind of have to accept that that's what it's going to be. So that's that kind of what you're saying is like lots of self taugh put the feedback in the right place. Keep marching forward. Any thoughts on that before I go to my next point?
[00:45:14] Speaker B: No, just. It's exactly right. Yeah, but I do I. I was driving to. I was doing some. You just said I would net. You're like, I would never act like that. And I was just thinking the other day I was like, you know, it's almost hard to say never because 15 years ago. Right. Like it's. What was I thinking? It's just so funny that you said that because I was just like, it's. It's hard to say never because any situation in any certain time, you know, we don't really know what's going to happen or what we're going to do, you know, so.
[00:45:58] Speaker A: Well, actually, I think that's. Yeah. They actually really good. You know, that's like saying I'd never act like that is a pretty big leap. But also maybe I'll add one more thing is so the potential to act in all sorts of ways. I don't know, maybe I just haven't been put in that situation yet. But the other is also being perceived as acting that way when you weren't necessarily. So even this guy I'm talking about, perhaps he wasn't actually acting that way and I was just perceiving him as acting that way based on that.
[00:46:26] Speaker B: Yep, yep. 100%. Yeah.
[00:46:29] Speaker A: It's a complex, complex thing when you're like a leader and an owner and you're like fighting for your life and then obviously you've got all these people who are just like, I don't like how you're acting. And that was exactly how I. How it was. And some of it was based in just pure like, no, you're acting like a total jerk. And like, I am not into this. And then part of it was just like, I don't know what I'm talking about. But I feel the liberty of judging this person.
So being a business owner has been like a huge. It has made me a better person, like, a thousandfold because I've had to really, really hold up a mirror to myself, which has been good.
[00:47:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:05] Speaker A: One step, one step, one step beyond.
